Reason UEF sucks in current patch is obvious

[BrickedKeyboard]

I think the number 1 reason comes down to just 1 unit :

UEF destroyer : 274 DPS, 60 range. 30 torpedo DPS.

Aeon Destroyer : 212 DPS, 80 range, 106 torpedo DPS.

Cybran Destroyer : 230 DPS, 100 torpedo DPS, 80 range.

Seraphim Destroyer : 195 DPS, 60 range, but 160 torpedo DPS,


I already knew the range disadvantage of the UEF destroyer really hurt it, but the torpedo DPS difference is what really gets it slaughtered. Most destroyer fights have at least some shots fired within torpedo range, or the enemy has subs!

This is not even a question : just from the stats, UEF t2 navy is going to get slaughtered on any navy map. Couple this to the fact that Aeon navy now has shields that are better (in the form of the cheap t2 land shields), cybran gets an extra gun on their cruisers with for an even more insane DPS advantage, and that 160 torp dps means that seraphim destroyers are also going to win against uef t2!

Yes, there's coopers, but that's another 900 mass for a 1750 HP ship for 96.97 torp dps, which is an extra ship to micro, more rolloff time, more mass, and the enemy factions get 100 torp dps on their destroyers for free!

Where UEF would shine was at T3. UEF navy dominates at t3 because it's 540 DPS battlecruiser will pwn far more than it's mass in destroyers, and they get the best battleship.

But the new patch makes the barrier to reach T3 navy enormous : 7120 mass. This means in 1v1s, the UEF player has already lost navy, and has either lost his shipyards or is about to lose them, by the time he has enough t3 mexes to spare 7k mass. Conclusion : either the t3 navy cost needs to be fixed, or UEF t2 ships need to be buffed.

[ColonelSheppard]

You cannot simply a single unit without any faction specific context, if you do that and then still think something is over or under powered you can ccreate a balance team for the new balance episode, yet i doubt you would find a lot of people agreeing with you obviously.

I do agree that UEF sucks, but not because of navy, the navy is actually quite fine.

[BrickedKeyboard]

Why don't you set up a test game, 2 equally matched 2000 players. No T3 allowed, fixed income so they have identical mass, and see who wins navy. One player plays UEF, the other another faction.

I don't really see any "context" here. It's a t2 navy fight. The UEF player can choose to make destroyers, cruisers, coopers, or shield boats. His opponent has similar choices. The numbers clearly show the UEF will lose to all 3 races :

1. The aeon player's destroyers can now run away and shoot. So the Aeon player just has to get his destroyers to max range, and then drive away. He will win with minimal damage.

2. The cybran player just needs to make a couple destroyers and a cruiser. That's 3 320 DPS guns with 80 range, for 960 dps. The UEF player can have 540 dps and 60 range. Guess who wins?

3. The seraphim player just submerges, unless there are coopers. He uses his high dps gun to insta-kill the coopers, then submerges.

Sure, in team games where your allies can protect you until t3, uef has a shot. But in a 1v1 on a navy map? It's GG.

[Ze_PilOt]

http://www.faforever.com/?p=1251

You can make your own team, ask to be part of one, or just propose your ideas to the selected team before or when they are elected.

[BrickedKeyboard]

http://www.faforever.com/?p=1251

You can make your own team, ask to be part of one, or just propose your ideas to the selected team before or when they are elected.

I'm only rated 1550.

However, YOU can help out greatly in proving/disproving my hypothesis. Your numbers show that UEF is at a clear disadvantage over thousands of ranked games, but is UEF at more of a disadvantage on navy maps or land maps in the ranked ladder?

[BRNKoINSANITY]

UEF has more than enough naval options.... you just have to throw enough frigates at the threat till you can reach t3. The sheer HP of shield boats + buttloads of frigates is relatively cheap and usually enough to survive till the transition.

[Cantor]

FYI, aeon torpedo dps is 106+75 = 181 not 106.

I would say UEF are not very strong but I don't think the main problem is the navy. With micro, Aeon navy is weaker. On big maps UEF can play passive since when they get to t3 stage they will win vs aeon/cybran. Playing passive is helped more because they have shield boats. Seraphim navy is very strong though, especially with micro since sera destroyers don't miss and because of their ability to submerge (which eliminates frigates as a counter to destroyers), and because the have t3 subs which also gives them the option to be passive.

If you check the ladder map stats you'll see that UEF has a relatively higher win rate on many navy maps than on pure land maps or land with a little bit of water maps.

The largest problems with UEF are that their t1 bomber sucks and their t1 arty sucks for attacking units, and their t2 rangebots suck. This makes them relatively helpless on many maps, especially vs aeon.

[rockoe10]

Why don't you set up a test game, 2 equally matched 2000 players. No T3 allowed, fixed income so they have identical mass, and see who wins navy. One player plays UEF, the other another faction.

I don't really see any "context" here. It's a t2 navy fight. The UEF player can choose to make destroyers, cruisers, coopers, or shield boats. His opponent has similar choices. The numbers clearly show the UEF will lose to all 3 races :

...

LOL, while your at it, can you test ONLY they T2 point defenses of the Cybran and the UEF and tell me who wins. Or how about the Shields of the Cybran and any other Faction? The numbers clearly show the Cybran will lose to all 3 races.

P.S.

Im kidding of course, you can't ignore the rest of a factions arsenal. If UEF or Cybran didn't have ways of dealing with, or countering, in some way I would agree. But UEF is pretty strong.

[ZLO_RD]

uef sucks because of t1 bomber, becasue many many people go second air and ghettos became less usefull(bomber comest in time when you load labs in transport and can kill them all) and already may have interceptor escorting bomber), because in t1 spam vs t1 spam striker+lobo are weakest, mongoose+shield not enought against t2 tanks, on water maps riptide counters by air and frigates, and sometimes uef have hard time struggle with submarine spammers (can't attack for long time while haveing more navy) cause coopers can die to air or destroers.
However they have percies, battlecruisers, fatboys, battlesgips, spearheads, goveners (t2 cruiser), shield boats, and t2 ghettos

but in early game they only have mechmarine that work well only agains mantis imho

[rockoe10]

Much of what you say has some truth ZLO, but that is why the UEF is considered a more "Turtle" style faction and likes to get to the next tech sooner than some of the other factions.