Strange bombing phenomenon

[whootle]

Hi guys,

Referring to replay 1303742 at the 34-35 minute mark, there is something I cannot quite figure out. In that game, there is a very very close bombing run around that time.

I'm wondering if bombers can drop bombs after they have been shot down (but is still crashing downwards?) If you look really closely at the replay (-10 speed and magnification recommended), the last bomb lands AFTER the bomber that dropped it crashes. To me that makes no sense at all.

In a simple scenario, if the bomber is shot down after the bomb drop, the bomb should land first (and well before the bomber, in both time and location.) If the bomber is shot down before the bomb drop, then the bomber should crash land (and no bomb.)

In this particular scenario, you can clearly see the timing is very close, but it is still clear that the bomb lands AFTER the bomber crashes, AND the bomb travels FURTHER than the bomber. I don't understand how this can happen. Is this a bug? Even in my initial theory of the bomb being dropped while the bomber was crashing, it still doesn't quite make sense.

Anyone know how this works and/or any ideas? Thanks.

[IceDreamer]

If projectile velocity < plane velocity, this will happen...

[whootle]

I think you mean projectile velocity > plane velocity? (In the non-vertical plane).

But the initial velocity should be equal. And, in this non-vertical plane, there should be no acceleration (barring drag) since it's a bomb. Would drag be taken into account in the game? Even if so, and the bomb has less drag (which is possible), it still doesn't explain why the plane crash lands before the bomb drops.

(Unless, you argue, that the bomb has less drag in the non-vertical plane (so it travels further) but MORE drag in the vertical plane (so it lands later). But then, you're really really stretching it.)

[Gorton]

Whootle: No. this is the correct use of the signs: 1<2<3. and 3>2>1. The opening is the larger part. So if projectile velocity is smaller than plane velocity it reads like shadowknight said (projectile velocity < plane velocity)
But in general planes crash faster than bombs.

Also, basic physics, the velocity horizontally makes no difference at all to when the object hits the ground.

[whootle]

Gorton, I did not misread the sign - thanks for clarification though. It sounds like you (and your interpretation is that Shadowknight is also) only talking about the vertical plane.

Considering only the vertical plane (and forgetting where the bomb hits) then I agree that the horizontal velocity makes no difference at all as to when the object hits the ground. In which case, you guys are basically saying that bombs have more drag than planes (therefore hitting the ground more slowly, assuming both have zero initial vertical velocity.)

Does that make sense? I would have expected planes to have more drag than bombs, not less. (Given size, the fact that the bomb is dropped streamlines while the plane is tumbling through the air, rather than gliding etc.)

And again, does FA engine even take drag into account? If it doesn't, again, this makes no sense at all. (Unless the bomb had zero initial velocity but the missile that shot down the plane gave it an initial downward velocity.)

[Gorton]

Well, the obvious answer is that in the engine, the bomber falls faster than the bomb. I offer no explanation as to why.
You did misread the sign.
Or rather, you misinterpreted the sign.

[whootle]

I assure you that I did not misinterpret the sign. I'm not quite sure what gave/gives you that impression.

Regardless, we are certain we are talking about the same thing now. And I'm still seeking clarification/further opinions about my question, since I'm still not really convinced it makes sense. Thanks.

[RoundTabler]

Assuming this is the game Gyle casted, I saw several other bomber phenomena that bear consideration. Were you using ground fire at all in the setons Gyle casted (when you cam close to sniping)?

[micro2]

I suspect the engine takes no account of specific horizontal and vertical velocity’s in a true physics sense.

It is more likely that each object has a speed and direction of travel. As the plane travellers less horizontal distance than the bomb it therefore has a shorter path to the ground. So if they travel at the same speed then the plane will hit the ground first. It is likely that the bomb has the same speed as the plane.

I have not looked at the code to confirm any of this. But I think this is the most likely cause.

[whootle]

RoundTabler: No, it's not that game. Watch the replay ID posted and find out.

micro2: I agree that what you says makes sense, in that the plane has a shorter path to the ground. But how can this be so if the bomb originates from the plane (presumably from the bottom of the plane) and they are most likely both considered projectiles? As projectiles, they should only be subject to the same types of forces (gravity, and possibly drag - no thrust) and therefore the same trajectory - if the drop and hit was at the same time.