The Kennel

[X-Peri-MENTAL]

Probably like a few people I am trying to digesting all the unit data base changes with the latest patch to see how I should adjust my play or choice of units. I have followed discussions in the forum and watched Engy Mod casts for a while so I wouldn’t be left behind when the patch was released but I am curious what people now think of the Kennel. I admit I didn’t use the building much before the patch but was wondering with the adjustment in build power on other units/buildings whether I should considering them.

I can see the build rate (BR) of T2 and T3 engineers have increased together with respective engineering suites on ACUs. The Hive cost of (M:350, E:1750) for BR steps of 25 also seem reasonable. I am struggling to find a case when anyone would build a Kennel though, the high cost (M:550, E:2750) for only a BR 20 seems very inefficient, in fact I can get 88% more build power with 13% less mass with T2 engineers.

There also seems little point building kennels to reduce engineer congestion around factories as you can now spam T3 engineers with far more efficiency than Kennels & drones.

Now taking the opposite view - I accept you are getting more HP to protect your build power and the drones air airborne and can be deployed remotely but for me that does not make up for the high cost. What are other player’s views, is the Kennel destined not to be seen on the battle field anymore

Spoiler: show

T1 Engineer (M/BR) = 10.4
T2 Engineer (M/BR) = 12.8
T3 Engineer (M/BR) = 16.3
Hive (M/BR) = 14.0
Kennel (M/BR) = 27.5
(Lower figures are better)

[Zock]

T3 engys are really slow, and while they are decent for assisting, they still suffer quite hard from pathfinding in lategame when you try to build stuff or assist t3 mex techs with groups of 5+. Kennels don't suffer this at all, and are actually quite fast.

Not making any statements if the current costs are fine though, but its quite a huge advantage that can't be ignored.

[Rienzilla]

First, don't forget that the kennel's build power is only used to build its drones. The drones are the actual builders, which cost 250m 2500e for 25bp.

However, every drone needs a kennel, so...

I must admit that we have only superfluously test hives and kennels. The extreme strong thing about kennels is of course that they can move around your base in no time. That may or may not be enough to warrant the significant difference in cost per buildpower.

I guess if we indeed do not see kennels on the battlefield anymore, we're going to have to buff it.

(suggestions welcome)
--
Rien

[X-Peri-MENTAL]

First, don't forget that the kennel's build power is only used to build its drones. The drones are the actual builders, which cost 250m 2500e for 25bp.

However, every drone needs a kennel, so...

Thanks for the clarification; I did not see the drone listed in Unit Database so made a wrong assumption. If the cost of the drone is included with the kennel to get the 25 BR then they are more inefficient than my previous (wrong) calculation (Kennel+Drone (M/BR) = 30.0).

I must admit that we have only superfluously test hives and kennels.

I thought the balance of the Hive is quite good, efficiency slots nicely between a T2 and a T3 engineer.

The extreme strong thing about kennels is of course that they can move around your base in no time. That may or may not be enough to warrant the significant difference in cost per buildpower.

Agreed the drone does have the nice flexibility of reasonable airborne movement but on the down side I seem to recall (no figures with me here at work) they have very low HP and are massacred by any unit that has AA fire.

[RoundTabler]

AA destroys drones, and is very bad in late game if you have them assisting something important, and your enemy have asfs. Also, why are Hives so much cheaper than kennels? Another thing to consider, kennel drones are VERY hard to select, so you waste time on microing them.

[Zock]

Also, why are Hives so much cheaper than kennels?

Because they are stationary?

Another thing to consider, kennel drones are VERY hard to select, so you waste time on microing them.

Shift rectangle, then select the drones.

[RoundTabler]

Rectangle?

[Gyle]

Kennels are one of those things that just aren't really useful unless your playing on a 40-80k map in some 1-2 hr game. Although such games are incredibly rare I think we need to think carefully before trying to force such a unit to be viable in smaller games. Essentially its the same argument as that for the mavor.

[X-Peri-MENTAL]

Kennels are one of those things that just aren't really useful unless your playing on a 40-80k map in some 1-2 hr game. Although such games are incredibly rare I think we need to think carefully before trying to force such a unit to be viable in smaller games. Essentially its the same argument as that for the mavor.

Maybe, but the Mavor is a T4 game ender that you would only see in big maps with lots or resources. The Kennel is a T2 structure and to only see them in large map / high resource games makes their situation worse, they also won’t win you the game. I would expect to see Hives and Kennels mid T3 game after the first T4 units have made an appearance. I think a comparison to the T2 mass fabricator is a much better comparison than the Mavor, i.e. T2 structure that gives you little return for your investment when compared to more efficient alternatives.

I have also been thinking about the valid case that has been mentioned that the Kennel’s BP is not constrained by range. The cases I have seen where Kennels were deployed is when they assist construction of T4 units and T3 factories, the placement of the Kennel each time was adjacent to the build site so they were no more effective than Hives in that job. The other use I have seen is to send them out to reclaim a T4 wreck but this is a high risk play, one enemy interceptor will chew up all that BP in seconds. Continuing to play devil’s advocate to my own argument another plus point for the kennel is that drones can easily assist a Navy factory; Hives might have a problem with that depending on distance from the land.

There are probably some other unique cases where the drones can be deployed but I have found their use outside of friendly territory is limited when they come into play.

(suggestions welcome)

I feel the cost needs to be similar to the Hive which is a far more viable option which at face value seems nicely balanced in my opinion. Maybe the drone’s BP could be reduced to 20 BP from 25 BP as the unit is not constrained like a Hive?

[Gyle]

On the massive games I referred to before their mobility can make them invaluable.

My biggest issue with them is the air designation. Its not like you could change it otherwise how else would you stop them. But it does mean that your opponents ASF's are turned into the most perfect anti turtle weapon ever since they can obliterate your shields charge instantly given a large enough number.