Cybran Air Factory

[Astrofoo]

This is a thread started with the intent to get some constructive feedback about the general opinion of the community regarding the Cybran Air Factory's ability to produce engineers. First off, if you haven't done so already, or in fact even if you have you should watch this video by Gyle comparing all of the factories' ability to produce engineers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NHG6xs7DuA

With that out of the way, here is the point of this thread: The Cybran Air Factory should be adjusted so that there is no difference between it and the other factions. You can use the UEF Air Factory for reference since they use fundamentally the same animation: the platform dropping down. There are two main points that I have seen why people do not wish to see this changed:

1.) Faction Diversity
I will be the first to say that I love faction diversity. However, why is the Cybran Air Factory the only one gimped? Why are all of the others the same speed? (Except for the Seraphim Air Factory which of course was over adjusted.) This seems like a very weak argument to me.

2.) Faction Balance
This is the belief that the Cybran Air Factory's slower production of engineers somehow balances out the Jester. I see where you're coming from but here's my counter point:
The Seraphim t1 Bomber is amazing and becomes even more amazing when microed well. One could even say that a skilled player could do more early game damage with a Seraphim t1 Bomber than a Cybran t1 Jester. Yet, if the Seraphim have such an air advantage, why does their Air Factory produce engineers the fastest of any of the factories? I understand it was adjusted and it seems it may have been over tweaked. But my point still stands however, that why should the Cybrans be hamstrung for having a t1 gunship? All of the engineers have the exact same build power statistics, thus why not production/roll off times?

The Final Point: If it was deemed necessary to fix the Seraphim Air Factory's slow production of engineers not so long ago then why not the Cybran Air Factory's?

My Proposal: If possible make the Cybran AND Seraphim Air Factory be normalized to the same as the other factions. There are a total of eight Land and Air Factories.(One land and one air per faction.) Six of those are balanced, two are not. Why not make it all eight?

Extra: I was going to do the math and add up how many seconds are lost while the Cybran Air Factory lets the engineer off but it's late here and didn't feel like doing it. If anyone wants to see it I'd be more than happy to time it and add up the results and come back with some concrete mathematics showing how much time is really lost.

[ZLO_RD]

some times you can easy see the point of faction diversity, like aeon kite at t1 and then they have no units to kite with at t2
or sera have t1 floating arty (wich is best arty overall) and worst t2 hower tank

if we look at t1 air we can say that cybran have advantage of jester, but usually no one makes jesters with 1rst air and thats not because of engineer delay imo. however everyone makes sera t1 bombers wich are epic bombers now, they shoot almost all the time hardest to dodge, effective vs moving units and buildings, looks like easyest to micro.. well i think that origianlly cybran are punished for having jester, while uef can start making engies from air fac after they won air cause uef t1 bombers suck.

sera air fac is now OP, pls nerf
reduse cybran air fac delay of 40-50% (so it still will be bad but not very bad)

some maps are actually good for air start (Red Rocks, TAG_CraftiusMaximus) so i want be able to air start with cybran

[Astrofoo]

reduse cybran air fac delay of 40-50% (so it still will be bad but not very bad)

I would be completely willing to compromise on this if people REALLY feel like it balances out the jester. I.E.:
Cybran only ones with t1 gunsip --> Cybran only ones slower at producing engineers.

However: It shouldn't be as drastic a penalty as it is right now. So ZLO's proposal would be a huge improvement and very welcome. Other opinions welcome.

[Ato0theJ]

I'd like to see all factories be equal. If someone wants to complain about Jester being the reason for the rolloff time can propose it be removed from the game since no one else gets one and it's *not fair* D': Good luck with that and consider it a point for faction diversity. All the rolloff does is limits early game cybran strategies.

[-_V_-]

It's fine as it is.

[Nombringer]

It's fine as it is.

Your reasoning being?

[StefanD_]

if Jester + faster engis creation will be OP, then why sera bomber + faster engies productio is not OP?

[Kurbain]

I believe the delay should be reduced, but the Cybran Air factory shouldn't be made equal to the other ones to give somebody that goes first jester a disadvantage. An early Jester is a lot harder to deal with than an early bomber (Unless you face Vortex) and the Jester cost will be reduced in 3626.

[FireMessiah]

im a regular Cybran player myself, and I think the current way is "fitting", it just feels right.
I usually see Cybran as the early land spam kings, with Sera/Aeon being the early air/bomber rushers.

im NOT a fan of all this "make every faction the same and equal" way of thinking.
if your going early air, change faction

[Astrofoo]

im a regular Cybran player myself, and I think the current way is "fitting", it just feels right.

Well I'm glad we don't balance the game on what "feels right" then. So far I have seen no legitimate reason to not at least reduce the delay with the Cybran Air Factory. My problem with the faction diversity argument is that all of the other factories are equal. Only the Cybran one is gimped.