t1 t2 t3 engis conistency / balance / concepts

[RoLa]

i have not played the engi mod yet, but i think it changes a lot of basic gameplay concepts. I suggest another way.

t1 engies could construct t1 units and building at normal rate but on higher tech things slower. It should be most cost effective to use one factory for each tech level assisted only by engis of its level. Of course if you dont want to build lower tech units any more your t1/t2 engis shouldnt be wasted. This concept is very logical. As the game progresses lower tech units/engis should become obsolet but not complete useless. The engine should let you do the translation from t1 to t2 to t3 phase smootly.

Suggestion for changes:

t2 engie build rate * 1.1
t3 engie build rate * 1.25

t1 engi on t2 build rate * 0.75
t1 engi on t3 build rate * 0.5
t1 engi on t4 build rate * 0.25
t2 engi on t3 build rate * 0.75
t2 engi on t4 build rate * 0.5

time to produce t2 engies * 1.5
time to produce t3 engies * 2

t2 factory producing t1 build rate * 0.75 mass waste of 5%
t3 factory producing t1 build rate * 0.5 mass waste of 10%
t3 factory producing t2 build rate * 0.75 mass waste of 5%

t1 factory producing t1 units energy bonus of 20%,
t2 factory producing t2 units energy bonus of 20%
t3 factory producing t3 units energy bonus of 20%

This values are a guess, could be complete wrong but they show the direction. So what do you think?

[discoverer2k4]

Hi, I really, really suggest you to try the engy mod first, before you talking about it. Its worth having a look into it!!!
Its not changing the gameplay. You can play it like the normal FAF version. So... please give it a try.

Your suggestion: you need to consider that you have reclaims all over the game, where you don't want to send in a bunch of high costly t2 or t3 engys. So you still need to build t1 engys. At the end you have a lot more engys on the field - this changes the gameplay more than the engy mod actually because I'm afraid you have more engys than attack units on the field. On the other hand and this is more important: t2 and t3 engys are bigger than t1 engys. so while you can assist a t4 unit or a factory with less t2 or t3 units than with 60 t1 engys because of there higher build rate the amount of t3 engys is limited to ~20 for example until they start to bump into each other and pathfinding issues begin as well.
Thats my opinion on this.

And to repeat it you should test the engymod! Its worth it!!!

br,
dis

[RoLa]

Hi, I really, really suggest you to try the engy mod first, before you talking about it. Its worth having a look into it!!!
And to repeat it you should test the engymod! Its worth it!!!

Yes, i will. I am really curios. But not today

Your suggestion: you need to consider that you have reclaims all over the game, where you don't want to send in a bunch of high costly t2 or t3 engys. So you still need to build t1 engys. At the end you have a lot more engys on the field - this changes the gameplay more than the engy mod actually

The reclaims are not really affected. And if you start to build t2 and later t3 engies you will have less engis on the field.

On the other hand and this is more important: t2 and t3 engys are bigger than t1 engys. so while you can assist a t4 unit or a factory with less t2 or t3 units than with 60 t1 engys because of there higher build rate the amount of t3 engys is limited to ~20 for example until they start to bump into each other and pathfinding issues begin as well.

Because of this i suggested to increase the build rate of t2 / t3 engis slightly but to compensate increase the time to build the engies. So you would have with 20 * t3 engies the same build power as 80 * t1 engies in the actual version but with my further suggestions to reduce efficience for higher tech build you would need 120 t1 engies. it's just better to have 20 t3 engies assisting a t3 fab.

But your t1 or t2 engies are not competely useless though because u need to build t1/t2 units building later on, too.

[discoverer2k4]

anyway all of this was already discussed over months - outcome was the engy mod.

see here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2890 buddy ...

[RoLa]

The logic behind my suggestions is to have a smooth translation from the need of many t1 engies to a balanced one.

So you build now a t3 land/air/naval fab each assisted by 60 engies(180 t1 engies) + a bunch of t1 fabs


later you will build t1 t2 t3 land / air / naval each assisted by engies of their tech level (30 t1 engies / 24 t2 engies / 18 t3 engies)

[RoLa]

anyway all of this was already discussed over months - outcome was the engy mod.
see here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2890 buddy ...

sorry i missed that. I am new to this forum.

[dstojkov]

Hi,


In my mod I resolve the pb this way:

the eco part( mass, energy, build time )
t3 = 2 t2 = 4 t1
for all faction

the build rate
for uef, cybran
t3 = 2 t2 = 4 t1

for aeon, sera
t3 = 2 t2 = 6 t1

bonus in energy and mass storage
t3 = 2 t2 = 6 t1
for all faction

You can use old system but it is simply not worth it because eng with high tech level do the same in better with more hp, more storage, can build more unit and none the the less reduce the unit caps

[dstojkov]

Well I have to check if the bonus and mass storage is in the actual release I forgot may be this update ... But in the next one with the navy physics change It will be for sure !

[Vandroiy]

The engineering changes in Engymod are going very much in the right direction. The bigger change is the factory thing -- which I tend to nag people about in chat -- but merging Engymod without that would probably do a similar thing as you suggest, just better tested and with more realistic values.

I wouldn't mind merging the changes with some preliminary compromise on the factories -- it won't solve all the spam but it would improve current FAF and have less controversy. Either way, there already is a decent solution to the T2-3 engineer problem.

[FunkOff]

i have not played the engi mod yet, but i think it changes a lot of basic gameplay concepts.

This shows me, without reading an additional word, that you don't know what ur talking about. No, engie mod does not change basic gameplay concepts. That's the best part about it.