Why are hives and kennels no alternative to engy redesign?

[lebensnebel]

Hi gamers,

I think the hive for cybran and kennel for UEF were the originaly designed to solve the t1-engy spam problem, right? First they were a bit imba (long time ago) and now they seem to be unattractive (never see them).

Has anybody tried to rebalance to replace the engy spam? What speaks against them?
For Aeon and Seraphim we could try to either buff their t3-engy (I think they are already better than their counterparts?) or the support commanders/upgrades for support commanders.

I think a change along those lines might find greater acceptance, reduce the t1-engy spam, keep the buildpower flexible and the game reactive (opposed to factory spam).

Cheers,
Lebensnebel

PS: So far I love all the patches&changes in FAF. All hail Ze_Pilot!

[CocoaMoko]

That may be true, but engy redesign adds a lot of depth with the way T2 and T3 factories are handled in general. Even if aeon and sera were somehow given equal abilities, that wouldn't accomplish the scope of the improvements that are in the engymod.

[lebensnebel]

I don't mind the engy redesign, it is kind of stupid to always have only one t3-factory.
Still, I think the "natural" solution to t1-engy spam is having a better builder on a higher tech level. It feels also more elegant than having a hq-factory.

Also: Useless units = uncool

[Zock]

We adjusted the engystations aswell, to make them more usefull. It is actually intended that they are an alternative to t1 engys now (they may be OP now, feel free to test and report), but not the only one. If you wanted them as only solution you'd have to move them to t2 as first step and it would be quite hard to balance.

So usefull engystations are a part of the engymod.

[lebensnebel]

wait, they are t3?!
I only play aeon

If you don't mind answering, how is the cost/buildpower ratio of t1-engies, hive, kennel, and factories in the mod?

[Zock]

there is the slightly outdated pdf in engymod thread, i'm bullying rien to get an updated one, but it should work for now. Get the values there, i don't have all in head.

And of course they are not t3! i don't know what i were thinking. Let's just pretend i never wrote that.

[Supreme321]

Kennels and hive still probably need to be 5-10% less efficient in costs to engineers because they are faster and have a bigger range then regular engineers, just so they aren't op compared to t2 and t3 engineers in aeon and seraphim.

[AwarE]

If you are UEF and you don't build mass kennels you are ignoring your best economy units.

[BRNKoINSANITY]

Aware, this is simply not true... t1 engies are 10 mass per build power and the drones are almost 28 mass per build power. So basically in current balance you are paying 3x as much for the same build power with drones over engies.

I know that the engy mod changes those values quite a bit, but drones and hives will always be less efficient than engies.

[AwarE]

drones can pick up mass anywhere fast and can repair shields fast ...try it ... you will be amazed