Spoiler: show
Please remove/lock this thread if you believe this thread doesn't belong Ze_Pilot. I know you deal with a lot of stress related to balance and I by no means want to add to that.
Now anyway, back to the topic discussion. While I understand the 1700 rank limit for proposing new balance changes, I am under the impression that many players in that category have been playing online since GPGNet. Now that's all fine and dandy, and I do believe they should be the main driving force of balance. However, people (such as myself), who are relatively new and fall short of the threshold, may have great ideas, but are unable to propose.
I made this thread, "Food for Thought", to solve this problem. Here, anyone can propose ideas for balance. They need to be well thought out, should have some data to back them, and don't need to have specific numbers. However, you should not expect your change to get in. This is not a balance proposal thread, but a balance idea thread. I created this to generate discussion on new ideas. The "Pros" can take these ideas if they like them, perhaps tweak them a bit, and propose them in the next balance patch.
Please do not just say "No" or "It will not work", offer constructive criticism, offer advice to improve the idea, and try to get some data to back up what you are saying.
Don't discuss recent balance changes, this is a discussion for new ideas.
If some ideas are really popular, I'll put them in the OP if I remember to.
Anyway, here's my ideas.
Now anyway, back to the topic discussion. While I understand the 1700 rank limit for proposing new balance changes, I am under the impression that many players in that category have been playing online since GPGNet. Now that's all fine and dandy, and I do believe they should be the main driving force of balance. However, people (such as myself), who are relatively new and fall short of the threshold, may have great ideas, but are unable to propose.
I made this thread, "Food for Thought", to solve this problem. Here, anyone can propose ideas for balance. They need to be well thought out, should have some data to back them, and don't need to have specific numbers. However, you should not expect your change to get in. This is not a balance proposal thread, but a balance idea thread. I created this to generate discussion on new ideas. The "Pros" can take these ideas if they like them, perhaps tweak them a bit, and propose them in the next balance patch.
Please do not just say "No" or "It will not work", offer constructive criticism, offer advice to improve the idea, and try to get some data to back up what you are saying.
Don't discuss recent balance changes, this is a discussion for new ideas.
If some ideas are really popular, I'll put them in the OP if I remember to.
Anyway, here's my ideas.
Spoiler: show
1. Zthuee
Yes, the infamous Zthuee: T1 artillery unit of Seraphim. While by no means overpowered now with the recent nerf, I do believe there's still room for improvement. The Zthuee is a very powerful unit in navy and land battles, and is often built in high proportions by Seraphim players.
I believe I've honed in on the issue with this unit. The problem is that it has "the best of both worlds", while the other factions lack in some important stat.
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 03,UAL0103
The Cybran Medusa has high splash, high ROF, but low DPS. The UEF Lobo has high DPS, high splash, but low ROF. The Aeon Fervor has high rate of fire, high DPS, but low splash. The Zthuee has all three of these stats in high amounts, allowing it to kill mobile units with ease.
I would propose, in order to not introduce a new animation, to bring the Zthuee to near Lobo stats. Style wise, Seraphim is similar to UEF, so I believe this would be the best fit. I suggest the Zthuee's rate of fire be decreased drastically (to about 7 seconds I'd say) and drop the DPS to somewhere around 75.
2. RAS
RAS is a powerful tool which quickens the pace to T3. It is an efficient upgrade which gives a powerful boost to energy production, and is available for use at the T2 stage. A decent rate of ASF production can be run off RAS and 1-2 T2 power generators. This often means that the T2 stage ends early and the late game air play begin with haste. While I have no stats to back this up, I've used RAS personally, and it is the quickest way to get ASF production going.
As Commander upgrades are generally less useful than having their unit equivalents (T2 Factory/T2 Engineering, 16 T1 units instead of a gun upgrade), I believe RAS should be less useful than a T3 economy.
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 01,URB1201
For the balance change itself, to keep in theme with commander upgrades, I would increase the buildpower cost significantly as well as energy costs moderately. It builds very fast compared to other commander upgrades and has a relatively low energy cost for the energy benefits (At T2, for a commander upgrade)
This change would also reduce the prevalence of Aeon being the "Air Player" due to their double RAS upgrade.
3. Engineering Stations for Everybody
Engineering stations are currently overpriced compared to engineers because they would overpower the factions that possessed them if they were otherwise.
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 05,XRB0104
While I can't create the models myself, I propose that Seraphim and Aeon get their own engineering station equivalents. This would open the game for balance discussion regarding engineering stations. If engineering stations were more cost efficient build power wise than engineers, then massive swarms of T1 engineers would no longer be viable. T1 Engineers would still be viable, of course, due to their mobility.
4.Restorer
It's balanced, but as someone who I can't remember pointed out once before, they don't fit the style of Aeon. Aeon are about having specialized units that do only one job, and are good at it. The Restorer is a jack of all trades weapon that can kill any threat it faces.
I propose there should be a look into turning it into a superior heavy gunship. Make it slightly better than other factions' T3 gunships, but don't give it the bells and whistles (such as minor anti-air). Increase the projectile speed and damage, and remove the missiles. Basically, standardize it with the other gunships.
Yes, the infamous Zthuee: T1 artillery unit of Seraphim. While by no means overpowered now with the recent nerf, I do believe there's still room for improvement. The Zthuee is a very powerful unit in navy and land battles, and is often built in high proportions by Seraphim players.
I believe I've honed in on the issue with this unit. The problem is that it has "the best of both worlds", while the other factions lack in some important stat.
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 03,UAL0103
The Cybran Medusa has high splash, high ROF, but low DPS. The UEF Lobo has high DPS, high splash, but low ROF. The Aeon Fervor has high rate of fire, high DPS, but low splash. The Zthuee has all three of these stats in high amounts, allowing it to kill mobile units with ease.
I would propose, in order to not introduce a new animation, to bring the Zthuee to near Lobo stats. Style wise, Seraphim is similar to UEF, so I believe this would be the best fit. I suggest the Zthuee's rate of fire be decreased drastically (to about 7 seconds I'd say) and drop the DPS to somewhere around 75.
2. RAS
RAS is a powerful tool which quickens the pace to T3. It is an efficient upgrade which gives a powerful boost to energy production, and is available for use at the T2 stage. A decent rate of ASF production can be run off RAS and 1-2 T2 power generators. This often means that the T2 stage ends early and the late game air play begin with haste. While I have no stats to back this up, I've used RAS personally, and it is the quickest way to get ASF production going.
As Commander upgrades are generally less useful than having their unit equivalents (T2 Factory/T2 Engineering, 16 T1 units instead of a gun upgrade), I believe RAS should be less useful than a T3 economy.
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 01,URB1201
For the balance change itself, to keep in theme with commander upgrades, I would increase the buildpower cost significantly as well as energy costs moderately. It builds very fast compared to other commander upgrades and has a relatively low energy cost for the energy benefits (At T2, for a commander upgrade)
This change would also reduce the prevalence of Aeon being the "Air Player" due to their double RAS upgrade.
3. Engineering Stations for Everybody
Engineering stations are currently overpriced compared to engineers because they would overpower the factions that possessed them if they were otherwise.
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 05,XRB0104
While I can't create the models myself, I propose that Seraphim and Aeon get their own engineering station equivalents. This would open the game for balance discussion regarding engineering stations. If engineering stations were more cost efficient build power wise than engineers, then massive swarms of T1 engineers would no longer be viable. T1 Engineers would still be viable, of course, due to their mobility.
4.Restorer
It's balanced, but as someone who I can't remember pointed out once before, they don't fit the style of Aeon. Aeon are about having specialized units that do only one job, and are good at it. The Restorer is a jack of all trades weapon that can kill any threat it faces.
I propose there should be a look into turning it into a superior heavy gunship. Make it slightly better than other factions' T3 gunships, but don't give it the bells and whistles (such as minor anti-air). Increase the projectile speed and damage, and remove the missiles. Basically, standardize it with the other gunships.
