Breaking a turtle

[Flynn]

This keeps happening to me, I win map control then my opponent obviously techs up somehow (even though he has less resources) then even though I build defenses right on his doorstep he somehow manages to break out with a superior economy and wins the game. I dunno how they do it. I look in their base and see T2 mexes all capped whilst I am still on T1 mexes. It is purplexing even when I watch the replay. It seems they are able to harrass me just enough to prevent me from getting established defenses and eco, whilst at the same time teching up their own eco.

[ZaphodX]

You don't damage their eco by raiding them effectively. You also feed them mass from failed raids.

[Flynn]

You are really annoying.

[ZaphodX]

You are really annoying.

Umm ok I'll just quit giving you advice from now on. I know you never take my advice anyway but someone else reading this might find it useful:

If you have map control and your opponent can out eco you then either they are better than you or you haven't raided them well and you probably fed them mass.

[Flynn]

Heh, I have limited learning capacity But yeah in principle what you are saying is correct, which is something I already know.

[Flynn]

Just happened again.

[Plasma_Wolf]

The mistake you made is that you don't push on when you've got him in a corner. You hold back as soon as you see a single one PD and he had 3 in his base. That didn't stop you from building a horde of angry mantisses though.

At 9 minutes, you had 60 mantisses and 1 artillery, but you didn't use this artillery whatsoever. That single one could've been used to kill the PDs. You will probably need more because you're Cybran and the enemy ACU might respond, but having just 1 artillery after 9 minutes while you've got him back in his corner a lot earlier. He built PD in his base to protect it from your T1 rush and you knew this before he retreated. That means that if he retreats, you will need artillery to kill PD.

As soon as you've got him boxed in, he's got two options: Start a PD creep or tech up, hoping to use a few superior tech units to kill your T1 blob. When he techs up, the T1 PD will remain the only PD in/near his base. Artillery are sufficient and if you had built them, you would've won with a single push. In the second case, go to T2 and build mobile missile launchers.

Keep scouting (right side was unprotected so land scouts will do, lots of air scouts will get through as well, especially after he landed his planes). Then you can see what he's doing, so if he were to start with a PD creep and then try the T3 upgrade (which a very wasteful change of mind), then you know that you either have to hurry up destroying the T2 PDs so you can attack with your mantis blob, or see if the missile launchers can kill the upgrading factory itself.

In short, the big mistake you made here: NO ARTILLERY

Some other things I've seen. You upgraded the commander to T2? Go for the gun upgrade, then you outrange the enemy T1 PD by range. Your firing range is 22 for unupgraded guns but the PDs have a vision of 24, so its always firing back before you can destroy it. You did use Overcharge correctly, to make up for the wall bug.
If you have an upgraded gun, you can then add the stealth upgrade for some real fun. The T2 PD has a vision of 28, the upgraded gun a range of 30. So you always stay out of vision of enemy T2 PDs while you're killing them with your ACU. Be careful though. Scouting once by the enemy will ensure you get hit for a while, so you should remain at full health when advancing. If the enemy has no radar tower (stupid), then the stealth upgrade is not needed. If you already have the gun upgrade, this is a good trick to slow PD creeps down (or bringing them to a full stop) while you're teching up or waiting for your MMLs to arrive.

You were schocked to see so much T3 suddenly, but he barely had any T3 tanks. He was just raiding with them as you initially would with the light assault bots. Also, if you're surprised by their sudden arrival, you'll already lose half your army, as you just did.

[FunkOff]

General turtle breaking tips:
-Scout him every minute or 2
-Attack persistently, but avoid his defenses
--Use tanks to kill anything not guarded by PD
--Use Air to kill anything not guarded by AA
--Use TML to kill anything not guarded by TMD
--If he tries to build PD, AA, and TMD everywhere, focus on out-ecoing him because all that stuff is expensive.
-With a better eco, pick your choice of game-ender from the list below:
--Experimental
--Mass T3 mobile artillery (under shields)
--Nuke
--T3 air (if he only has t1 or T2)