30 minute game help

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30 minute game help

Postby Flynn » 15 Mar 2013, 00:31

this is a longer replay from me for a change. I do everything I can to try and smash this guy but he is like a cockroach. Eventually he has me against the ropes and I can't touch him for love nor money. The game lasted for 30 minutes so I recommend watching at +10. Normally in games this big I crumble anyway (due to the amount of micro involved), but was able to defend somewhat effectively this time and, for some of the time atleast, my score was higher than his one 8-) Don't get too bored watching it!
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Voodoo » 15 Mar 2013, 00:43

You have to reclaim the map faster and with more engies, also the battlefield.
And your start is too slow, try to capture the map faster.
One more thing is, why you never tried to attack?
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Flynn » 15 Mar 2013, 00:46

this is in the wrong section :| Also I must have attacked at least a dozen times, I took his whole right side at one point plus i was in his base doing damage. i couldnt expand as well as usual because i was microing my bombers at the beginning :| Edit: I sent about half a dozen engineers to each battlefield to reclaim, but I didnt notice any reclaim going on. I think its a problem with attack move. Edit: Now I've calmed down I've watched the replay and I dominated the game for the first 15 minutes so no offense to a pro but I don't know what you are talking about :lol: Feel free to move this to the "help me I'm a n00b" section if you want. Also another thing this replay shows is how imba illshovahs are. They have the highest HP of any T2 unit, bar the Obsidian!
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Beej » 15 Mar 2013, 14:23

Why did you quit? You had more T3 than him, and T3 air - one strat bomber supported by your inties could have really helped you.
Its a tough map - going T3 against him was probably best idea. It doesn't really should illshovahs are imbalanced IMO - generally numbers were fairly even but he had more T2 so thats expected.
One thing I'd say is using your commander early game (or at any point) to support a factory is generally pretty inefficient. On that map moving to another of the starting positons early ish helps you secure you base a bit better.
Earlier harassment perhaps? Instead of going into his main base and killing maybe a hydro, go around the back and see how many mexes you can get!

Hopefully that's helpful to you.
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Voodoo » 15 Mar 2013, 14:31

There are a lot of little stones to reclaim. In the middle and on the sides. You started in minute 15 to reclaim the stones at the middle but you never reclaimed the stones at the side.

The game is all about reclaim, the player with the better income will win in a normal game.
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Flynn » 15 Mar 2013, 15:05

It's not as simple as you like to make out. If I sent engineers to go and reclaim those stones, I would have less interceptors and less T2 land due to having less engineers to assist those factories. One mistake I have consistantly seen pros make is going for reclaim when they cannot utilise it due to not having enough build power. Without build power, reclaim is useless.

Beej, I quit because I was constantly on the defensive, he had a significant number of T2 PDs and Othuums in my base. I had assumed his com had the nano repair upgrade since it was at the front but it turns out he didn't upon watching the replay. Even if he had, if I was Aeon I would have tried a mercy snipe but as cybran fighter bombers would have been too expensive to spam quickly before he would figure out what I was up to. He took out my T3 power which was a nuisance also I didn't realise it at the time by my shift key is playing up which made putting engineers on attack-move difficult (for the reclaim). Somehow I lost the T1 spam war after 20 minutes which was the turning point of the game. After that I just couldn't get back on offense.
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Blackheart » 15 Mar 2013, 15:08

When Voodoo says you need more reclaim, you better reclaim more.
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Beej » 15 Mar 2013, 15:31

From about minute 7 you have no mass, but power. had you even one engie reclaiming then it would have helped and you'd have more units since you had factories making units which needed mass...
Also near the beginning you bomb his base, he gets AA - best thing to do is bomb somewhere else :)

One more thing I noticed, you had t2 engies up before him, and built TMD... Why not TML too?
It's hard to think more offensively but he had no defence (he also had no launchers) so you could have taken out most of his t2 mexes.

(I say this all humbly, I'm terrible at micro and its always easier to see others mistakes!)
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Flynn » 15 Mar 2013, 16:04

I only build TMD's because I've seen the pros always do it as a matter of course. But TMLs need to be built in a forward position, engineers would not survive in a forward position on that map. I think bombing his engineers was justified because I was taking out at least 2 engineers with each run which would pay for the bomber and deny his build power-even though my bombers were getting shot down quite quickly. I just don't seem to have enough engineers to throw a load of them on reclaiming duties for some reason. And don't anyone suggest an engineer spam factory because that's what I had :roll:
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Re: 30 minute game help

Postby Beej » 15 Mar 2013, 16:08

After they built the radar in the middle you had 3 engies sat there idle for several minutes, and TML in your base could still reach some of his mexes!
Not saying TMD isn't a good idea, just attack too :)

Early game you had more factories than your opponent, so should have won the T1 battles more convincingly had you been reclaiming too - they consistently have more mass than you for this reason.
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