32 Player Support

[nine2]

Is 32 player support possible from a technical point of view?
My clan plays 16 player games at least daily, and often we have extra players unable to join because there aren't enough slots.
The pings are generally ok on 16 players, I really think we could handle more.
Can 32 players be done?

Note: I'm not asking if it will be fast, or a good idea. I'm just asking if we can flick a switch somewhere and enable it. The players themselves can decide if its appropriate for them or not.

[Tagada]

16 vs 16 on a 40 km map? o.O
on a serious note: It's maybe possible ( I am not sure nor am I qualified to really confirm this) but it would be a lot of work because the Lobby UI would need to be changed as well and also there really isn't enough space for so many players in the current lobby design. Also connection issues and the SIM lag would be just insane.

[Katharsas]

In a 4v4 game, there are 28 connections.
In a 8v8 game, there are 120 connections.
In a 16x16 game, there would be 496 connections.

This would only be playable with full share due to connection issues, and those will happen in basically every game. But hey, if anybody likes that kind of clusterfuck, sure should be possible, at whatever unbearably low simspeed that would run at.

[Brutus5000]

Actually it's double the amount of connections. Since it's using UDP it's not full duplex.

Nevertheless:
If you take an 8v8 as a baseline, the probability of a breaking connection on 16v16 is 4.13x higher and compared to 4v4 it's even 17.7x higher.
Even if it's techncially possible I don't think it will be fun.

[Uveso]

Note: I'm not asking if it will be fast, or a good idea. I'm just asking if we can flick a switch somewhere and enable it. The players themselves can decide if its appropriate for them or not.

I viewed the gamecode and it is indeed possible to rewrite the game to 32 player support.
(we already increased it from 8 to 16)

BUT you can't do it by a simple switch.
This is because of the fact that we don't have the space inside the lobby to display and configure 32 players.
And rewriting the lobby is a bit more complex.

So if you have someone who is willing to change the lobby and maybe the end score screen, then its possible.

Beside the lobby you need to change the scripts in:
lobby.lua
aibrain.lua
GameColors.lua
aiutilities.lua
lobbyComm.lua
Tasks.lua

You also need to change the mapfilter for 17-32 player maps
And some localization strings if you want to add an option for this.
This leads to change all localization files strings_db.lua (11 files)

At least you need a map that will support 32 player startpositions.

So its possible, but far away from a simple switch.

[FtXCommando]

8v8 was already a mistake

[FtXCommando]

By the way, these sort of things absolutely should be discussed as good ideas or not. Like it or not, custom games converge to the highest possible count because it’s always easier to join a 9/8 game and beg to change map than it is to host a new lobby.

Laissez-faire style options will just result in most of the games being 16v16 shitfests, already see zero-k suffer from this.

[nine2]

hmm so you want to remove options because people might use them poorly. i guess we should remove the 1000 unit cap as well while we are at it. options are good and its up to people to make sensible choices. perhaps 32 is insane but 20 is not. that's what i am trying to say = WE are able to handle more than what we have now

lobby ui - we need a scrollbar
other uis and maps = yep there is some work to be done

8v8 are fun

for us, connection issues normally occur at the start of the game and we just ditch a player and let the game continue, at that stage of the game and at that player count, it doesnt matter

[ZLO_RD]

hmm so you want to remove options because people might use them poorly. i guess we should remove the 1000 unit cap as well while we are at it. options are good and its up to people to make sensible choices. perhaps 32 is insane but 20 is not. that's what i am trying to say = WE are able to handle more than what we have now

If that is actually the issues then just add a warning somewhere about lag in games that are bigger than certain amount of players. Mention potential problems when feature gets released.

[speed2]

and its up to people to make sensible choices

thats brave