Concerns regarding faf promo

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Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby Laticlave » 17 Apr 2020, 15:53

Hi,
Since the promo councillor application thread is up, this feels like the right time to express some thoughts I’ve had in the past regarding faf long-term prospects and more specifically long-term playerbase growth.
I’ll be blunt, I feel that any meaningful effort on external faf promotion (even moreso if it’s paid) would be essentially wasted as of right now for a few reasons.
Assuming significant advertising effort was put into faf, the player retention rates right now would certainly be way too low (except maybe for people who already played supcom in the past and just found out about faf) to justify the effort, let alone spending actual money.
And yet, other competitive games with comparable levels of complexity manage to do fine. I don’t think faf is « too hard » or « too complex » to keep new players engaged past a few games. However, from first-hand experience playing
Spoiler: show
Image
and recommending the game to friends, there are a lot of issues keeping them from wanting to stick with faf in spite of its qualities, and it certainly isn’t all about the game being « too hard » although it is certainly a niche game within the (already) niche RTS genre.

1) : The problem with the player retention rates and the false duality of new players/pros
I would expect for a lot of people to think that the new player experience isn’t really a priority right now as opposed to growing the high-level competitive scene. I’ll briefly say these aren’t contradictory whatsoever. To have an influx of high-skilled players, they obviously need to start the game at some point and have enough time/drive to bother sticking with the game and learning it. A steady stream of new players will, maybe even a year or two later, result in more high-skilled players purely mechanically. If only 1 % of the playerbase eventually reaches that kind of skill bracket, that means we’d need 1000 players to get only 10 competent ones and with abysmal player retention rates, this only compounds the issue.
Why don’t people stick with the game? I don’t think it’s a matter of the game being too hard, rather information being somewhat hard to acquire and the learning process being very painful. Most resources online are super outdated (supcom wiki) and the faf wiki doesn’t even have the comprehensive unit list and the convenient unit matrix from the og supcom wiki
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or even changelog sections.
For comparison, this is the Dota 2 wiki which is infinitely more usable and information rich : https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Storm_Spirit .
We definitely could use auto-generated wiki pages for every single unit, changelog sections to see recent balance changes, at the BARE minimum. I’ve personally started working on a script which pulls unit stats from the db and generates wiki pages for each unit, meaning whenever there are balance changes, we could export an entire up-to-date game wiki running a single command, however I definitely could use some html dev help for a couple minor issues.
Then maybe focus on an unified serie of community tutorials with better production values than disparate and potentially outdated tutorials by some nerd awkwardly mumbling into his mic.

2) : The limits of promo work right now
After a chat with Dog regarding his experience as a promo councillor, it seems there is a lot of frustration regarding the lack of coordination between teams and the promo councillor. No clear guidelines are given, social media accounts access couldn’t even be handed to him in time, I can’t imagine anyone doing this for free out of their spare time not eventually feeling disheartened.
Promo work is largely internal right now and there is precious little coordination with the other announcements (nomads for instance) or dev teams which results in generally ineffective actions.

3) : A proposed solution
I’d like to suggest the creation of some kind of team who would take a hard look at the faf new user experience and figure what would be the highest priority/least dev resources consuming moves we could make to make learning the game as painless as possible, paving the way for future external promo work and hopefully a bright future for our beloved game.
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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby speed2 » 17 Apr 2020, 17:15

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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby JaggedAppliance » 17 Apr 2020, 17:40

Apply for promo councilor and then build the team?
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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby Laticlave » 17 Apr 2020, 18:06

JaggedAppliance wrote:Apply for promo councilor and then build the team?

I'm not entirely sure the promo councillor tasks are exactly these, which is why I made that thread.
While there could certainly be some overlap, these tasks feel their own kind of thing. I wouldn't mind doing what you just said but that would imply a certain change in the conception of the promo councillor role.
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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby JaggedAppliance » 17 Apr 2020, 18:48

I think the promo councilor role can be shaped heavily by the person holding it and that position would be the most suitable lead for a lot of the things you mentioned.
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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby Azraeel » 17 Apr 2020, 21:41

I agree with Jagged, the person heavily shapes the position no matter what position it is. You could of said M&M Councilor was useless till Morax came.. Morax shaped M&M Councilor role in so many ways that had not been seen before Morax came.
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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby Brutus5000 » 17 Apr 2020, 22:55

Laticlave wrote:[...], it seems there is a lot of frustration regarding the lack of coordination between teams and [any other councilor]. No clear guidelines are given, [access to something you need] couldn’t even be handed to him in time, I can’t imagine anyone doing this for free out of their spare time not eventually feeling disheartened.


Fixed your description to match all councilor positions. It's not a fun position, it's work. Frustrating and annoying and most people think they know it better or don't care at all. There is a reason why we had a lot of rotation lately.
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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby Azraeel » 17 Apr 2020, 22:59

Brutus5000 wrote:
Laticlave wrote:[...], it seems there is a lot of frustration regarding the lack of coordination between teams and [any other councilor]. No clear guidelines are given, [access to something you need] couldn’t even be handed to him in time, I can’t imagine anyone doing this for free out of their spare time not eventually feeling disheartened.


Fixed your description to match all councilor positions. It's not a fun position, it's work. Frustrating and annoying and most people think they know it better or don't care at all. There is a reason why we had a lot of rotation lately.



i dont think people realize this its not a fun position like Player Councilor its a serious position where their is real work required :roll:
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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby Morax » 17 Apr 2020, 23:11

Well, the summary of new player experience is simple: All Welcomes are in general 1 of 3 maps:

Spoiler: show
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SO, this really hits home:

Spoiler: show
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If it were not for me playing Supp Comm before FAF was created, I would write it off as "Oh look, the game depressed even further into a noob state where it's just people playing GAP and using the highest-level units in the game." No one in there right mind would come into FAF and think there is more to it with competition and whatnot.Personally, I still to this day think we cater too much to "everyone" at the expense of showing off what is really there.

Promo is one of those roles that always seemed to simply "take orders" rather give them as well. I think anyone who takes the role next could do the same.

The community is really a tough thing to get to know: it took me a few years to get to know the "major players" [people who do stuff, not the "pros," although there are pros who work on projects as well other then themselves ; )] and why I should care, or who to pay attention to. You have a lot of misinformation thrown out at people through streams, casts (Gyle's inaccuracies for instance); shitting on people for not knowing everything about the game; mixed information on how to "train" newcomers (I am appalled some trainers are 'use this modification and this UI modification and that is best way to start'); and garbage aeolus chat that doesn't do diddly to help anyone who genuinely wants it.

Spare people that are very self-motivated, no one is going to think "this is worthwhile to get good as this game and enjoy this community."

Best of luck to whoever takes promo council, and please be good enough to actually find other resources rather rely on other functions to do it for you.
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Re: Concerns regarding faf promo

Postby Azraeel » 17 Apr 2020, 23:18

Cant lie... Cant be more accurate with the all maps that new players see is 1 of 3 maps and then get trapped into crater, gap, or thermo mode forever :|
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