Proposed Map Vault Rules Update & Additions

[Farmsletje]

I believe so. Afaik it just prevents people from looking for it in the vault

[Morax]

The astro crater map ownership transfer is under investigation. Expect it to get resolved by the end of this weekend.

So far I have the following to say:

1) I firmly agree that global rating is in no way accurate, but removing astro crate from that mix is a positive. I however did not attempt to do this in any time that I have been M&M, although I would like it to be done.

2) BRS_Astro (the original author) and Resistance had a conversation where he gave him ownership rights, which gives Resistance the rights to do with it what he will. In current, a map author can choose whether or not a map is hidden/ranked.

3) M&M assumes ownership of "unknown author" maps, which include GPG ones, to prevent mishandling of this kind of scenario. The ladder team would likely not include any maps for 1v1 where the author chose to unrank their map, and I do not believe it is even possible to affect ladder rating if he/she chooses to unrank it. Ladder rating and global works on a different, independent system from each other.

4) I think BRS_Astro and Resistance cannot communicate very well due to language barriers. One speaks primarily Portuguese, one primarily Russian.

5) It is my belief that BRS_Astro misunderstood some facts and may have given up ownership without good, prior knowledge.

6) AND THIS ONE IS VERY IMPORTANT: Under normal circumstances, someone giving ownership of something means they forfeit everything going forward, regardless of impact. BRS_Astro failed to fact check Resistance and it is definitely in part very much so his fault for this. From my point of view, demanding a decision get reversed is a dangerous road as many people will likely try and backpedal their way out of a situation. Someone should be VERY careful in deciding what he / she does with their property whether it is digital material (example, a map for Forged Alliance), you car, your money, etc etc. It is a very bad practice to reverse things unless there are some underlying, broken circumstances.

7) I hope this comes as a lesson and people pay more attention to the rules as I try to promote them as much as possible, often get ignored. Without rules, people take each other's property, ideas, etc and it becomes a disagreement that cannot be resolved. Are the rules perfect in every way? NO.... that is why I put them up for debate each time, and the point of this current thread.

That all being said, I think the 2 need a translator so that BRS_Astro can be given a second chance and confirm he understood what he was doing. After all, this is a gaming community with the goal of making as many people as happy as possible, with respect to extremes.

Please give me a little more time and will ensure that both parties understand what has transpired before a decision is made. I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, but also do not want to make this a lawless community.

[RazerFeed]

Thanks for an update!

Howerer, all of the people who play on "normal" maps and support deranking of astro, just put themselves as they are more important people than crater players, imo.

Crater players = Gap players = Canis players = Seton players, etc.

Astro crater playerbase is huge, and as ALL other players, people who play on astro aswell need a ranking system to balance their games or either it's gonna get unplayable due to disbalance, and will result in a player quitting the game, instead of getting bored of astro crater eventually and switching to other maps, simply a player lost.

Same as if we make other maps unranked and only keep astro crater ranked, people will rather quit becouse it will get unplayable due to lack of ranking system (which is essential for this game), than switch playing to astro crater right?

So is it worth killing this niche of the game, to "mAkE rAtiNG MoRe rEaL" ? Which will anyway probably not solve the problem anyhow...
Best option would be giving astro crater its own ranking system, even though it can be said about any map... But making it unranked will make it just unplayable, and players will quit.

We are all here to have fun in the game, and it's personal choice of everyone how they do it, and no one else's business, I'm not really even an astro player myself, but seeing a bunch of people think they are better than others becouse they are PlaYInG tHe GaME aS iNteNded and want to force others to do same, is completely wrong.

Choosing between "rules", "law" and the right thing, I will always choose the right thing...

Thank you again for an update @Morax and waiting for weekend.

[CurrySmuggler]

I think a map shouldnt be deranked if people just dont like it. However Astro isnt a real map. It is a sloppy 3 min work effort input abomination that violates current map rules. Since the community agreed to them, it is legit to unrank it.

[biass]

However Astro isnt a real map. It is a sloppy 3 min work effort input abomination

It's very easy to declare the same statement about any map; including both yours and mine, with the relevant perspective.
It shouldnt be something that we judge in that manner and thus anyone responsible for hiding maps, including myself: does not do it. I hope.

violates current map rules.

The rules are not particularly well written (sorry, ill take a look at them), but in short Astro is given an exception.
I think unrating astro provides more damage to the user experience compared to keeping it up, and thus do not agree with how this was handled.
Here is to hoping the situation gets resolved post haste.

[Meow]

Astro crater playerbase is huge, and as ALL other players, people who play on astro aswell need a ranking system to balance their games or either it's gonna get unplayable due to disbalance, and will result in a player quitting the game, instead of getting bored of astro crater eventually and switching to other maps, simply a player lost.

I'm not convinced that will necessarily result in lost players. Not having correct ratings is unmotivating true, but so is getting bored of your map and trying out other maps just to see how you get crushed easily by someone with a significantly lower rating (I don't want to name anyone, but I have seen 1700-1800 rated Astro players get easily ran over by 1000 rated players on other maps).

Best option would be giving astro crater its own ranking system, even though it can be said about any map... But making it unranked will make it just unplayable, and players will quit.

I don't know how feasible that is, and breaking that gate could lead to people wanting separate-ratings for other ''overplayed'' maps too.
It would be regrettable to see people leave though, so perhaps this could be an experiment, and could be reviewed/voted on after a while?

[RazerFeed]

I'm not convinced that will necessarily result in lost players. Not having correct ratings is unmotivating true, but so is getting bored of your map and trying out other maps just to see how you get crushed easily by someone with a significantly lower rating (I don't want to name anyone, but I have seen 1700-1800 rated Astro players get easily ran over by 1000 rated players on other maps).

I have seen atleast one guy who deleted FAF due to astro unranking, becouse he disagrees with and it's hes most played map. And I as well have seen people who were former astro players and moved to other maps later, so both statements are not true. And on any map there is a possibility of 1000 guy crushing 1800 guy, that's how RTS works

Moving to another map is totally fine, but being forced to do so, is wrong already (unrank = unbalancable = unplayable = force to go other place, imo)

I don't know how feasible that is, and breaking that gate could lead to people wanting separate-ratings for other ''overplayed'' maps too.
It would be regrettable to see people leave though, so perhaps this could be an experiment, and could be reviewed/voted on after a while?

Yep, that's the hardest part of the whole situation and where everyone split in opinion, I think it's not worth killing most popular map in the game (or call it different gamemode, some people get triggered when I call it an actual map, but it's a fact), very risky experiment, if it can be reviewed/voted later and reverted, who is going to email everyone who quit already, to tell it's been reverted ?

[Farmsletje]

And on any map there is a possibility of 1000 guy crushing 1800 guy, that's how RTS works

There's a difference however if that chance is 1% or 10%+

[FtXCommando]

We will never consider a “map rating per map type” system. That’s a lie, what I mean is that we did consider it and universally agreed it was an awful idea. Not only is it incredibly painful to have to restructure the database of the server/api or wherever to have to keep “up to date” with the new maps, but the maintenance of it will require consistently motivated people (pipedream) and it doesn’t even solve the issues of global rating.

Long story short, it is the equivalent of a logger cutting off one of the main branches in a disease rotten tree and exclaiming “Mission Accomplished!”

There’s a reason no major game uses such a system.

[adjcn]

Hello.

Through this message, I ask that the resistance be reversed.

1 ) At no time did I understand that I was passing the rights to my map to him. I didn't do it nor do I intend to donate, give my map to anyone.

2 ) I thought that when he spoke to me it was the will of all moderators and board members.
But I received messages from other moderators who didn't know anything and were amazed at such a decision from one person.

3 ) I accepted what he said because he thought it was the voice of all the members of the board and moderation, I felt pressured and thought that by not accepting the withdrawal from the rank I would be frowned upon by the board and moderation.

4 ) My conversation with him was really not very clear, I have to resort to google translator, I don't know the same also uses google translator
I have a history saved from the conversation if you want I can put it here.

5 ) speaking astro crater i know that the map has rank problems, and i would rather agree with the removal of rank from the map if it is clear the will of all members of the moderation board and of course if the community in general was consulted so that it is a choice for everyone and not just a man or just those who don't like the map.

6 ) in a democratic world I think that people have the right to play on the map if they want the star crater despite the hatred of some is very played, even without the rank and having been hidden people continue to play in it.
I think for now he should be ranked unhidden again, that would be my will as the author of the map, I am open to talk about the future of the map about him being ugly and not having textures it was not as said above that he was made in 3 minutes actually took much longer than that and I never thought the map would be a success, I mean people would play it straight every day all day. The idea came from a friend who was talking to me and I started putting things in the map editor. It was supposed to be simple, quick and objective.

And when the map was created, there weren't so many rules and many maps were made without texture. and colors the part of the wall is high on purpose the idea was that the team was protected inside the base.


7 ) Another thing that I noticed at some point someone deleted the map and that must have generated some complaint from the players and so they uploaded the map as an unknown author, luckily I always put my nick in the description of the map otherwise nobody would know the authorship making clear my Brazilian friends who debuted the map with me.

Finally, I apologize to those who like the map, I am feeling cheated and used.

Ratifying that when I accepted the withdrawal of the rank it was only due to pressure and for not understanding clearly and clearly what really happened. I really thought that it was the will of ALL moderators and members of the COUNCIL It was never mentioned in the conversation that he would be hidden too.




again i apologize if what i wrote is not clear because i use google translator and i don't know if what came out here in english is clear and explanatory.


BY: BRS_Astro
cya