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by **FtXCommando** » 30 Oct 2019, 05:49

Calculating rating based on individual map while keeping a system for global is hilariously complicated. Do you know how many extra tables we're going to need to account for that quantity of trueskill variables? That doesn't even get to the fact that your "map rating" will mean absolutely nothing because the global games will be balanced based on the pretext of global rating and the systemic knowledge of the player that that pretext provides. That means you will have say 4 1800s against 2 1900s and 2 1700s in the game lobby. Then the "global rating for this map" might have them at 0 rating, 2000 rating, 43 rating, 450 rating vs 4 dudes at 2000 rating. How are you even supposed to resolve that situation without creating a new, just as unbalanced rating?

If we throw out the rating idea and just go with showing how many times a person played a map: you can literally already do that by searching for a player and how many times they played a map in the replay vault. Why clutter the lobby ui with it?

People need to stop presenting solutions that are the equivalent of putting a bigger bucket beneath an overflowing bucket and instead focus on fixing the faucet itself.

by **SPL** » 30 Oct 2019, 11:05

You cant decide for the other players which maps they have to play.

by **Brutus5000** » 30 Oct 2019, 22:24

Steel_Panther wrote:Not really, because the people complaining about inaccurate global ratings aren't the ones thatplay one of the 10x10^1000 iterations of gap. E.g. setons: there is one version.

Wrong:

Spoiler: show

Steel_Panther wrote:Yes I know there are dozens of iterations of gap, etc, but that shouldn't matter too much. Generally people who are playing [gap/crater} all the time are also playing the same version anyway, so that doesn't matter much at all.

Wrong for Astro Crater:

Spoiler: show

Also wrong for Gap:

Spoiler: show

by **Steel_Panther** » 02 Nov 2019, 00:12

Brutus I would say that your evidence supports me. Fine, maybe not ALL the games are on just a single map, but the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY, for each of those maps, are played on a very small fraction of the total "available versions" of each map. I have literally never seen more than 2 of the setons versions even hosted.

FTX I'll put it this way. If two additional tables displayed in the lobby clutter it up too much for you, "well you know, that's just like, your opinion, man." Honestly the faf client is so laggy and clunky that even searching through the vault is very annoying. And it literally DOESN'T perform the task you say it does. You can't find out how many total games someone has played on a certain map, unless you are willing to literally count every single game that is listed for their online replays. Is that honestly your solution? Otherwise, as I previously said, you can just get a glimpse of what they have been playing lately. The point is that it would help a whole lot and be very useful to know HOW MUCH WEIGHT to give to a player's global rating, for that map, without having to do a shitload of searching and counting for every single player...

I never ever said it would replace global. Where are people getting that from?

I'm so sick of this garbage excuse, "hey, that idea isn't perfect." Ok, so how many F**CKING YEARS do we have to wait for this system to be improved? It's like if you're driving a shitty 1995 honda civic, and then your neighbor offers to sell you their 2014 BMW for 200 bucks (a huge improvement!), but you say, No way, a Ferrari is way better! So you keep driving the garbage vehicle forever, thinking, "hey someday I will have a great vehicle!" How many users does FAF has to lose before that happens?

"Don't make perfect the enemy of the good." (especially when complete garbage is what you currently have)

by **Brutus5000** » 03 Nov 2019, 18:45

No, it seems like you missed my point. These are only the maps that have been played. The whole vault is completely spammed with these maps and categorizing them (or banning) them would be an enormous effort. If you start deleting the top3, people will just use some of the others. If you start deleting all of them, people will just upload new ones (just as they did before - for whatever reasons).

by **Steel_Panther** » 08 Nov 2019, 03:58

Brutus5000 wrote:No, it seems like you missed my point. These are only the maps that have been played. The whole vault is completely spammed with these maps and categorizing them (or banning) them would be an enormous effort. If you start deleting the top3, people will just use some of the others. If you start deleting all of them, people will just upload new ones (just as they did before - for whatever reasons).

Are you just trolling or did you not actually read my posts? That's literally the exact opposite of what I said.

edit:

From my very first post: "Sure let people play whatever they want."
I never at any point said we should delete or ban any maps, or even categorize them. The closest I said was responding to keyser, "Sure you could combine them all together I suppose, but the point is to know if they have a decent rating on THE OTHER MAPS." Which obviously shows I didn't suggest it, or even care if that happened anyway because I think that would be pretty pointless and not help solve the problem I care about (rating on NON-TURTLE MAPS).

Honestly how bad is your reading comprehension?

by **Hyalatoh** » 08 Nov 2019, 15:14

Limit the lobby to 8/10 payer like it is on Steam.
Less co issues, more games. Less cancer Map.

by **Brutus5000** » 09 Nov 2019, 21:50

Steel_Panther wrote:
Brutus5000 wrote:No, it seems like you missed my point. These are only the maps that have been played. The whole vault is completely spammed with these maps and categorizing them (or banning) them would be an enormous effort. If you start deleting the top3, people will just use some of the others. If you start deleting all of them, people will just upload new ones (just as they did before - for whatever reasons).

Are you just trolling or did you not actually read my posts? That's literally the exact opposite of what I said.

edit:

From my very first post: "Sure let people play whatever they want."
I never at any point said we should delete or ban any maps, or even categorize them. The closest I said was responding to keyser, "Sure you could combine them all together I suppose, but the point is to know if they have a decent rating on THE OTHER MAPS." Which obviously shows I didn't suggest it, or even care if that happened anyway because I think that would be pretty pointless and not help solve the problem I care about (rating on NON-TURTLE MAPS).

Honestly how bad is your reading comprehension?

You suggested to add a rating per map. This is totally unrealistic, as this would add another 2000+ different independent ratings into the system. We already have problems with ratings of new people because they have so few games (they get kicked out of games because they don't have enough games), this would massively increase the issue. Also this doesn't really fit if you have basically exact same maps on Dual Gap and you have 10 different ratings there because you didn't play on them often enough to let the game "learn" your rating. The only logical way is to go for rating per map category, which was suggested in the past multiple times. Here I explained why this is not working.
Sorry if thinking a few steps further is too much for you to handle.

by **Louvegarde** » 09 Nov 2019, 22:24

by **Steel_Panther** » 09 Nov 2019, 23:16

Brutus5000 wrote:
You suggested to add a rating per map.

Nope.

This is totally unrealistic, as this would add another 2000+ different independent ratings into the system.

Only if a complete moron is designing it. Because I very clearly said and will repeat for the infinitieth time, it would show ONE extra rating, for the map hosted in the current lobby. There is no need to calculate rating for EVERY OTHER MAP, INCLUDING THOSE THAT YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED. Only a moron coder would do that. I don't think I have ever played more than 100 different maps in my lifetime.

And while no one has actually said so, IF it is the case that the rating for a map MUST be calculated and stored ahead of time (after playing the map) and not calculated when joining a lobby, you still could solve THE PROBLEM I WAS TALKING ABOUT (wanting to know rating on the non-gap/crater maps), by only calculating maybe 10-20 of the most popular maps, and then displaying that ONE map-rating in the lobby, if there is such an estimated rating available for that map. Otherwise the lobby could show "N/A" in the map-rating column. Is that an insurmountable difficulty? I don't think so, but you tell me. But it is OBVIOUSLY not required that you calculate a separate rating for the 100 versions of gap that only a handful of people have ever even played, and every other map that I have never even heard of. This is some garbage straw-man argument that every map needs to have a rating calculated. To be extra clear since it is obviously not sinking in with you, I DON'T EVEN WANT A MAP-RATING FOR ANY OF THE GAP OR CRATER MAPS, you can just ignore them.

We already have problems with ratings of new people because they have so few games (they get kicked out of games because they don't have enough games), this would massively increase the issue.

No. You still have global rating, and if they are noobs they are playing all welcome noob games anyway. If someone gets kicked out because they have a higher global rating but a low rating or few games on a specific map, then it's because THE SYSTEM I DESCRIBED IS WORKING EXACTLY AS INTENDED!

Also this doesn't really fit if you have basically exact same maps on Dual Gap and you have 10 different ratings there because you didn't play on them often enough to let the game "learn" your rating. The only logical way is to go for rating per map category, which was suggested in the past multiple times. Here I explained why this is not working.

See above.

Sorry if thinking a few steps further is too much for you to handle.

You're actually a few steps behind because you literally cannot read and understand what I was suggesting.

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