Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Talk about general things concerning Forged Alliance Forever.

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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby armacham01 » 08 Jul 2019, 19:36

From my experiences, no one is NEARLY as toxic in voice chat as they can be in normal chat.


That is largely true, but I think you are underestimating how about 1-5% of males react when they hear a woman's voice on voice chat, or if they just know that one of the other players is female.

Have a link to the FAF Discord in the matchmaker tab, have rooms for squads, have a looking-4-game channel. No code required (aside from adding a link in the matchmaker tab) and accomplishes the purpose albeit in a more clunky fashion.


I don't know enough about Discord to know what is feasible, but it seems like the best option is to make it very easy for FAF players to use Discord, something like what FTX proposes, and then implementing the system is simpler and policing people's speech is largely a Discord problem, rather than a FAF problem. I'm not saying we couldn't also moderate it through FAF. But if the "first line of defense" is to let Discord deal with it, that might be the most convenient for everyone involved. And the last thing we need is to walk into a class-action lawsuit because of privacy violations under any one of the many regulatory frameworks that exist in different countries.

Is it possible to create 2 specific discord "rooms" (or channels, or whatever the terminology is), one for Team 1 and one for Team 2, and FAF provides the links directly only to the players on those teams, so if tehy want to open discord they just need to click on the link from in the FAF app (or copy-paste it into their browser) and then BANG, they're set up with voice chat? That would be even better than sending people to a "looking-4-game" channel
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby tatsu » 08 Jul 2019, 21:15

armacham01 wrote:Is it possible to create 2 specific discord "rooms" (or channels, or whatever the terminology is), one for Team 1 and one for Team 2, and FAF provides the links directly only to the players on those teams, so if tehy want to open discord they just need to click on the link from in the FAF app (or copy-paste it into their browser) and then BANG, they're set up with voice chat? That would be even better than sending people to a "looking-4-game" channel

you're actually not inventing things here.

this is faf a couple years ago, back when mumble was the biggest voip around. In fact I'm not sure any of the code is currently missing. it's just people don't use mumble anymore and noone has yet coded the equivalent for discord. But yeah I second the return of this. it was incredibly popular on faf at one point.
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby FtXCommando » 08 Feb 2020, 08:40

Going alongside the recent newsletter, I figured I might as well as write a more in depth progress report here.

Image

So as you can see here, people will have their party shown on a tab in the client and essentially all the functionality of x'ing up as well as faction selection will transition to the client itself. People that are in charge of a party will be able to invite individuals into the group via the client and, assuming those people accept the invite, they will also see a similar screen. A problem that I pointed out to Geo after I saw this screen was that it doesnt really seem like there is any actual chat feature within the party system itself. Now obviously the client has aeolus, pms, and just the ability to create various IRC channels, but we will probably need to think of how we want to approach communication on this party screen.

You can also see that new players will likely immediately click on the play tab and will then be taken right to the matchmaker. Ideally we will want to combine the ladder as a 1v1 matchmaker itself so that there will be no confusion between the two, but it will likely stay separated in the first release to minimize any accidental destruction of the functionality of ladder. Anyway, those new players would then ideally be capable of quickly and consistently getting into a game where there will be no problems with lobby politics.

Feature-wise, Dog essentially covered what you guys need to know. Askaholic is currently working on the complexities of the queue code itself and trying to make it so that the server is capable of putting 2 random dudes into a game on the same team while also juggling parties themselves. Likewise, there's the investigative aspect of trying to understand how to precisely convince the server to spawn people in as players on the same side. Initially I figured that this was already solved in ladder, but apparently in the code for ladder all that happens is that the server is given players to put into a game and then the server just sets everyone in the game as an enemy. There is no actual "teams" as the server does not care who is who and where they are. Ideally, GW code can simply be pasted over as a lot of this problem has been work Brutus has been working on solving.

Clientside work is the biggest roadblock currently due to a variety of factors related to dev manpower for java and the complexity of the java client. Geo is trying his best to create a functional ui that is easy to comprehend, but if anyone has any ui experience and wishes to help him in some fashion, please do get in contact with him. Personally, I don't see anything really unclear about the way the party system seems to work now and so I don't have much of a problem with the look. But then again, I'm aesthetically incapable and can't tell the difference between shit and art.

Another thing we're working on is the creation of multiple pools for a variety of rating ranges. I don't really have anything ironed out for it, but suffice to say it would likely be a system of 3 pools with varying map quantities and map selection processes. For example, the pool for the lowest rated players would tend to gravitate to the classic 10x10 maps such as palms, twins, regor as well as 5x5s. These maps are pretty basic to get into and should stop people from being dumped into a game on Ditch or Seton's and having such a negative experience they want to stop playing the matchmaker/ladder. Likewise, their pool would consist of fewer maps.

As you increased in rating, you would slowly raise your probability of getting maps from the next pool. So for example, let's say a 500 or below rated player has a 100% chance of the bronze pool. A 600 rated player could have 80% and 20% chance for the silver pool. It could go on until say 1000 where you have 100% chance of getting the silver pool. Then, at 1400 you start the same process but with the gold pool and so on and so forth. I would imagine for matchups, you would just utilize the average probability between the two players and determine what map pool to use from that. After the map pool is chosen, you then just pick some random map from it similar to how ladder operates now.

I'm probably leaving stuff out because I'm tired, so if you have anything you want to know about feel free to ask.
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby Sir Prize » 09 Feb 2020, 11:38

Really looking forward to testing this.

UI looks good, a couple of minor changes for more clarity could include having the "Not ready" button in the bar with your name and faction selection. The text might not be clear to new players that it's the x up button too, so it could say something like "click when ready" at which point it switches to "ready to play" or something. I would also change the name from "Matchmaking" to "Team Matchmaking" in the sidebar and/or change "1v1 ranked match" to "1v1 Matchmaking" to be clearer.

Also I really don't like the idea of not getting classic maps like Palms and Regor for 1v1s once you're too high rated for the bronze pool, if that's what you're saying would happen in the last two paragraphs. Also not convinced Palms in particular or really any of those example 10km maps are particularly easy for 1v1, for example Palms usually leads to someone getting bullied by raiding from minute three until they die if there's even minor skill/BO gap, but "simple" maps are still good (and often more fun) for intermediate and high level play.
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby FtXCommando » 09 Feb 2020, 19:07

Sir Prize wrote:Really looking forward to testing this.

UI looks good, a couple of minor changes for more clarity could include having the "Not ready" button in the bar with your name and faction selection. The text might not be clear to new players that it's the x up button too, so it could say something like "click when ready" at which point it switches to "ready to play" or something. I would also change the name from "Matchmaking" to "Team Matchmaking" in the sidebar and/or change "1v1 ranked match" to "1v1 Matchmaking" to be clearer.

Also I really don't like the idea of not getting classic maps like Palms and Regor for 1v1s once you're too high rated for the bronze pool, if that's what you're saying would happen in the last two paragraphs. Also not convinced Palms in particular or really any of those example 10km maps are particularly easy for 1v1, for example Palms usually leads to someone getting bullied by raiding from minute three until they die if there's even minor skill/BO gap, but "simple" maps are still good (and often more fun) for intermediate and high level play.


Map pools are not mutually exclusive. You would still be getting traditional maps in higher rated pools. I would say palms could be considered a high skill ceiling map but also a low skill floor. It doesnt really require any in depth understanding to see where the important expansions are and where to send units.
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby UnorthodoxBox » 10 Feb 2020, 19:53

Looking forward to this, as I believe it will definitely make it easier for new players to continue playing instead of getting kicked from lobbies. Has it been worked out whether this will replace global rating, merge with global rating, or be separate from global rating yet?
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby FtXCommando » 10 Feb 2020, 20:12

Separate. Replacement isn't on the table unless we have at least up to a 4v4 matchmaker that has a reasonable degree of popularity. Will likely try to minimize global, so basically remove any mention of it outside of the custom lobby you join.
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby UnorthodoxBox » 11 Feb 2020, 06:15

What about a sort of soft transfer of global rating to tmm. I know rating can be abused, but the average 1800 player on any map will probably demolish the average 800 player. Maybe could cut global in half, give a high deviation, and that might work. Or has something for this already been worked out?
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby FtXCommando » 11 Feb 2020, 07:13

It's just a lot simpler to reset rating. On the short term it will lead to some imbalanced games, but trueskill is expected to get you to your proper skill level within 20-25 games in a 2v2 setting. This means we, for example, don't need to worry about possibly creating some sort of bimodal distribution initially. This "gap" can become a real problem in particular if people attain some rating within the matchmaker and then decide to stop using it.

If poor/new players are worried of losing all the time in the first couple days it is public -> they can just not play for a couple days, and then enter the system later. It is inevitable for new players to enter the system as that's just what new players do. So people might be slightly underrated initially as new players fear the possibility of losing, but it will eventually converge to "true" trueskill.

If we create a system where high rated players have their trueskill at, well, what their trueskill currently is (not a good idea to just arbitrarily f*** with sigma and give some random quantity based on personal bias) but with a high sigma, you just kind of defeat part of the purpose of the matchmaker. The system itself is now basing its player probability off of a system that was already inherently problematic which in turn means that these players may be discouraged from playing the matchmaker because they will be matching up with dudes at 2.4k trueskill if they are say a 2000 global dual gap player. Unlike the anxious new players that will at some point get over their fear of "smurfs" due to the system converging or them changing their attitude, these dudes are not likely to ever participate unless their attitude is forced to change.
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Re: Team Matchmaker Info&Discussion

Postby FtXCommando » 18 Mar 2020, 13:50

As a thought experiment for those with nothing to do due to the virus:

Assuming a matchmaker with 2v2 and 4v4 exists, can you make a case for why global rating should not just be removed? Let's say that your "global rating" that people see in custom games will just be your matchmaker rating and that the 2v2 and 4v4 matchmaker use the same rating. These custom games would have no influence on your rating.

And yes, this is something I'm considering so if you value global for whatever reason please explain it to me.
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