Player Councillor Elections

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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby Geosearchef » 07 May 2019, 23:13

Java takes more memory. This is an old game that should have a low resource option.


The game being old is no reason for our client to use low memory. I consider 500 MB to be low nowadays. Your operating system uses more memory. Your browser uses more memory.

The client does load hell a lot of data (compared to the python client) which needs to be stored somewhere.
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby Endranii » 07 May 2019, 23:31

Why are you discussing with Feather? :D
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby Francia » 07 May 2019, 23:33

Geosearchef wrote:
Java takes more memory. This is an old game that should have a low resource option.


The game being old is no reason for our client to use low memory. I consider 500 MB to be low nowadays. Your operating system uses more memory. Your browser uses more memory.

The client does load hell a lot of data (compared to the python client) which needs to be stored somewhere.


What data is the java client loading and how much does each thing contribute to the overall memory footprint?

Many people that play this game have older computers. If you join lobbies you will see many people with 300+ cpu
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby FtXCommando » 08 May 2019, 00:14

I do currently understand the issues about the client, but I do not believe that stating how I think the new client can be fixed would have any value to my application. It is essentially covered by me saying that I am willing to hear out the issues players have, and I will do the best I can to make them heard.


That’s nonspeak. Why even elect a PC if you have no ideas and plan on resolving all issues through “what players want.” The point of the position is to give devs a quick and easy way to communicate with an individual on community concerns. If they wanted to just manually gather community feedback on every single issue, particularly something with the breadth of client issues, then they would just abolish the position.

Likewise it isn’t very comforting to think that you view this as pressing enough to open your application with it and yet you don’t think there is any value in explaining how you would solve the issues.

I think it is fairly obvious that I would not give up on ladder. I am simply saying that changing the way ladder currently functions is not the top priority. This does not mean I would not continue to change map pools according to the current schedule. Perhaps what I should have said is that CHANGING ladder comes second, not maintaining.


Fair.

Yes, I believe a poll on the current player satisfaction with the way ladder works. While there is already a poll run by Gorton about how players like the maps, so far, there has been 0 inquiry in the form of polls about what players would like to be changed about the ladder system, and what they would like to stay the same.


The polls are by me, not Gorton. What are you supposed to inquire into other than pool size? It isn’t like there is a reason to dislike the implementation of veto or no repetition code. Otherwise, yes, that’s basically what I plan on doing.

Currently, there are no changes needed to be made to trainers from what I have gathered. Though that does not mean there are no changes wanted. I think the list of trainers should be updated so that trainers who are no longer actively training would have their trainer role removed.

For tournament directors, I would make sure that the list of TDs is legitimate and contains people that can be relied on to direct when asked. I also would be able to recruit people that I believe can host a tournament, but do not know much about becoming a TD.


Yes, for trainers there is not much to be done. The bottleneck is the player-side rather than from a lack of trainers. The best thing to do would be to create additional resources to rise players up to the level that most trainers tend to expect. Basically, refining guides so that people can approach trainers knowing the basic bos and the game terminology and be able to use trainers as a personal way to learn advanced concepts.

You make the rules to become a TD. I can already tell you that it is basically not possible to make becoming a TD any easier than it currently is. All it requires is an approval of your tournament rules, and I have yet to deny a tournament that wasn’t bennis (or feather using bennis’ account) and his fake 5k tournament.

The best way to approach it in my opinion is the utilization of the ladder week scoreboard to make an “automatic” tournament that can provide all player levels something to do. This would function kind of like the lichess system where they host monthly blitz tournaments. This should hold people over until TDs that hope to host more specific tournaments come up.

I’d also like to thank Morax, Yuri, and as always LOTS for their particularly large donations this year. I think FAF has seen over $2000 provided for this year on the tourney scene which is more than double what we usually get.
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby Francia » 08 May 2019, 01:02

Cancel my application. I will vote for box instead of splitting votes between us.
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby UnorthodoxBox » 08 May 2019, 01:38

That’s nonspeak. Why even elect a PC if you have no ideas and plan on resolving all issues through “what players want.” The point of the position is to give devs a quick and easy way to communicate with an individual on community concerns. If they wanted to just manually gather community feedback on every single issue, particularly something with the breadth of client issues, then they would just abolish the position.

Likewise it isn’t very comforting to think that you view this as pressing enough to open your application with it and yet you don’t think there is any value in explaining how you would solve the issues.


I do not have zero ideas, I just feel its frivolous to list every little detail I would change with the new client. For example, I think the UI could use some improvements i.e. bigger scroll bars and a more sleek chat design. I could have written a couple paragraphs about such issues and why certain designs are better and more intuitive, but no one wants to read that in an application. Also, I am not simply taking the opinion of the masses and giving it to devs and other contributors and saying "do what you wish with this information." The goal is for me to find out what players want accomplished, and then me personally preparing that information into an easy way for me to present to the devs and contributors what should be done/prioritized, and what players do not care about as much. The best way to accomplish this, I believe, would be to have a google form that is just a box that asks for players to list issues, then I can gather all the most common issues and develop a proposition to those that can fix said issues.

The polls are by me, not Gorton. What are you supposed to inquire into other than pool size? It isn’t like there is a reason to dislike the implementation of veto or no repetition code. Otherwise, yes, that’s basically what I plan on doing.


Sorry, I thought the poll was by Gorton because he is the only one that ever mentions it in aeolus.

The information I would need to gather from the polls would be changes people would like to see with the system. I can put the most common changes into a poll, and, with my own discretion, see how I can go about implementing changes required.

So what you are saying is that there just are not a lot of people willing to be a TD? That would definitely be an area I would try to expand. I think plenty of people can be a TD, but they just do not have any reason to do so. Also I have been waiting for ladder week to come back (which it has not sadly) because I think something like that is great and stimulates the competitive aspect of supcom players.
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby FtXCommando » 08 May 2019, 02:39

I do not have zero ideas, I just feel its frivolous to list every little detail I would change with the new client. For example, I think the UI could use some improvements i.e. bigger scroll bars and a more sleek chat design. I could have written a couple paragraphs about such issues and why certain designs are better and more intuitive, but no one wants to read that in an application. Also, I am not simply taking the opinion of the masses and giving it to devs and other contributors and saying "do what you wish with this information." The goal is for me to find out what players want accomplished, and then me personally preparing that information into an easy way for me to present to the devs and contributors what should be done/prioritized, and what players do not care about as much. The best way to accomplish this, I believe, would be to have a google form that is just a box that asks for players to list issues, then I can gather all the most common issues and develop a proposition to those that can fix said issues.


https://github.com/FAForever/downlords- ... backThread

This would be redundant. Not a bad idea to make a google form to gather future complaints about things although I always figured the forums are there for that purpose.

Sorry, I thought the poll was by Gorton because he is the only one that ever mentions it in aeolus.


That’s a yikes from me, my dude. Why bother lying about such a thing when the Discord logs for aeolus can clearly show you how often I’ve mentioned and discussed the ladder polls? I’ve even discussed the range that maps often fall between, what the system is used for, how we plan on taking user feedback into account, how many people are responding, etc. I still write over ten thousand lines in aeolus a year btw.

The information I would need to gather from the polls would be changes people would like to see with the system. I can put the most common changes into a poll, and, with my own discretion, see how I can go about implementing changes required.


That didn’t really answer what I asked. Your poll will tell you that people want to face people more often and that they do not want to face people much better than they are. It will say they dislike the maps they lose on and that they want a bigger/smaller pool. I’d wager a 2:1 ratio existing between people demanding for the culling of all 20x20 maps and those demanding the culling of all 5x5 maps. You’ll get a touch of people requesting team matchmaker as well.

So what you are saying is that there just are not a lot of people willing to be a TD? That would definitely be an area I would try to expand. I think plenty of people can be a TD, but they just do not have any reason to do so.


Can you expand on what you plan on expanding? Money is already given out via FAF funds. There are minimal bars to entry. The major issue is that few people want to take 4-5 hours out of their weekend to not even play the game. A system that allows for tournaments to be automatic gets rid of the manpower bottleneck that currently strangles tournaments.

Also I have been waiting for ladder week to come back (which it has not sadly) because I think something like that is great and stimulates the competitive aspect of supcom players.


Agreed.
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby UnorthodoxBox » 08 May 2019, 03:11

To start, I think a form would be a better way of gathering data as it leads to one, consolidated bank of information, rather than searching through the forums to make a list instead. Plus it is less of a commitment in my eyes to write a couple of sentences that only the PC would see than to make a forum post where plenty may see, but only a few may even reply.

Second, I was not attempting to lie about anything, and if it came off that way, I apologize. I have, in my time spent in aeolus, only ever seen Gorton mention the ladder pool (with the exception of QAI, of course). I did not think this required searching aeolus logs, just my simple reasoning for thinking that Gorton himself made the poll.

Now for the ladder polls, the whole point of them is we currently do not know certainly what the answers could be. Anyone can speculate about what people want from the discussions they have with many players, but I can also say many people rarely speak up in the community, and maybe they would be interested in having their voices heard. I would not blindly follow poll results, which I am sure would be a relief to hear, but instead would use my own judgement to come up with a plan that best fits what the ladder community wants.

On the TD side of things, I do not expect TDs to receive much for being a TD, just as most councilors do not expect to be paid for being a councilor, or mods for being a moderator. I was thinking more along the lines of to start, finding players that I already believe could direct a tournament, and convincing them to try it. Obviously that is more easier said then done, but that does not mean I would not try. As for automating tournament directing, there is nothing in the way of software currently in faf that would accomplish that, and I am sure the devs would prefer to not have another thing added to the to-do list. Currently I do not see a way of automating the TD position, but I do believe it could be done without the devs having to make new code.
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby Rowey » 08 May 2019, 13:48

I feel TD's Get less in the way of suport as it is mainly don on the good will of the TD's, java Client is a Pain for Tounrys now, the Tourname tab need more content i feel rather than having to sign up at the from to even be able join the tounrnament, this is why ive started doing Google forms. Final it would be nice to get more of a Guild line on if faf is going to donate money to a torunanment there should be a list of contidion to recived a certain amount. Thourght on theses would be apreciated
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Re: Player Councillor Elections

Postby FtXCommando » 08 May 2019, 17:21

Rowey wrote:I feel TD's Get less in the way of suport as it is mainly don on the good will of the TD's, java Client is a Pain for Tounrys now, the Tourname tab need more content i feel rather than having to sign up at the from to even be able join the tounrnament, this is why ive started doing Google forms. Final it would be nice to get more of a Guild line on if faf is going to donate money to a torunanment there should be a list of contidion to recived a certain amount. Thourght on theses would be apreciated


The list of conditions are the Tournament Rules for FAF. If public FAF funds are used, people are expected to hold to those guidelines to make sure tournaments are not being used to just siphon donations. When it comes to privately funded tournaments, then the Tournament Rules are applied only so long as it doesn’t contradict the TD’s rules.

In practice this basically means that a tournament needs to have a reasonable amount of participation (8 players barring special circumstances) and that there is no extreme rating disparity (1 2300 player and 7 1200s). This is because there’s no reason to get in the way of, for example, a privately funded 1v1 tournament against some 2200 player where people 1500 and under try to beat the player. If people are interested in participating and the donator is interested in funding, it should be hosted. Since FAF funds are provided by monthly donations, it’s best to minimize controversy by using the funds for traditional, competitive tournaments.

I’m hoping to talk to geo and axel about getting a tournament tab in the java client similar to the old one in the python client that allowed you to view upcoming tournaments and quickly sign up. I’m not sure if a solution was ever found to the issue of challonge API requiring authentication but if it has then that could be used to keep tournaments updated and remove (or move) finished ones.
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