Were FAF imo went wrong

[MrTBSC]

this is going to be a bit of a rambly post
and yes i am by far not as active as other FAFmembers cause i primarily watch FAFplay than playing myself now so you may take the following with a spoon of salt

that said ...
i played SupCom on and off for a couple years were i also was a bit active till the gpgnet shutdown
and for the longest time i was not a big fan when it comes to supcoms ballance and i hoped that FAF would make things better ..

personaly i would rather have a unitpool were low tierunits stay usefull to the end, throw in a couple of fun units (best example firebeatles) that break the mold of just flinging army after army at each other ... and since FAF added units from the blackops unleashed mod i kinda hoped they would add a couple more to diversafy the main gamemeta .. heck maybe even add nomads as the fifth faction if possible to the ranked or rated game .. what hinders that?

unfortunately what seems to have happened instead was that still higher tier units simply replace lowtierunits after a while
t3 assault/siegeunits dominating the game once reached critical mass

t1 phase has been lengthened without adding any variety to it so the groundgame is still primarily assault, arty and aa ...
and labs have no other use than being enginerhunters for the first 2 or 3 minutes ..

t2 is mostly about whatever assaultunit it offers and whatever option there is other than that gets barely used to not at all ..
and appearently the supposed fununits were nerfed to uselessness ..

and i go by this from watching like 250 to 300+ 1v1 matches casted over the years and from the few FAF games i played were people told me repeatedly to just simply spam tanks .. easy to say that that dull expierence had me slowly but surely jaded and i lost pretty much any motivation to touch FAF myself again ..

and lastly but finaly there is now the need to have my game linked from steam to my FAF account which i simply refuse to do because i won´t go and link a private library to a thirdpartyclient ..

what frustrates me the most about all this is that I WANT TO LIKE SupCom .. instead FAF killed it for me ..

so yea guess this is no longer for me ..

/ramble (not rant)

[FtXCommando]

The biggest mistake FAF ever made aside from not banning Feather in the first month was implementing t3 maa. The only new units I’d ever be willing to consider are the xbox exclusive ones. The moment anyone is forced to play with nomads in default games is the moment I delete FAF from my PC. Granted these are my opinions and other councillors can have their own, but adding new shiny things to FAF and distancing itself from the original FA is something I refuse to compromise on.

You don’t play or watch enough games if you think arty has no use other than to engie hunt for the first 2 minutes. Most would argue maa is OP so dunno how you got the idea that it isn’t useful later in the game.

What got nerfed in t2? Sparkie exists, hoplites, mobile stealth, mobile shields, pillars, ilshies, obsidians. Only things nerfed were firebeetles? And balance team is trying to give them a new ability currently?

Steamlink is nonnegotiable unless you plan on helping FAF create a new patch distribution system. But I’m sure your “third party principles” don’t actually extend to anything constructive.

Bye

[Geosearchef]

Feel free to fix: https://github.com/Brutus5000/deltaforge

[MrTBSC]

You don’t play or watch enough games if you think arty has no use other than to engie hunt for the first 2 minutes.

labs not arty´s, the rest is you misreading what i have written ...

What got nerfed in t2? Sparkie exists, hoplites, mobile stealth, mobile shields, pillars, ilshies, obsidians. Only things nerfed were firebeetles? And balance team is trying to give them a new ability currently?

i said fununits so yes like beetles and mercies .. yea they are TRYING to give it a new role .. and failing ..
so in your opinion low tier maa is usefull lategame .... and that is it right? what about the others when critical mass t3 assaults/siege hits the field? they get wrecked ..

yea t2 stuff exists .. and that is it .. as mentioned i rarely see them used beside the assaultoptions (pillar, rhino,obsidian, phim t2 assaultbot) ..

[FtXCommando]

t1 phase has been lengthened without adding any variety to it so the groundgame is still primarily assault, arty and aa and labs have no other use than being enginerhunters for the first 2 or 3 minutes ....

The only one misreading what you wrote is yourself.

Beetles have been changed, yes. Mercies haven’t been touched in like 4 years? How are they supposed to be “better?” Make it so half of all aa get deflected off their armor to make games more FUN and let people “win when they’re behind!!” or something? You don’t really seem to have any idea what you’re upset about.

t1 maa is useful up to strats at which point they aren’t really fast enough to harm the strat. Why should a unit that requires a grand total of like 3 mexes and 2 t1 pgens of infrastructure be able to beat a unit that takes 12 minutes of set up at the bare minimum? Do you comprehend how utterly toxic t1 units would be to a meta if they could just counter everything?

You’re once again proving that you don’t really watch a nice range of games. In teamgames the current issue is that siege bots and t4s aren’t able to punch through bases reliably so if anything they could use a boost. In ladder getting a tech lead is meant to put a mirror on a clock to either exploit map control gains or some eco advantage that they got while their mirror gained a tech lead.

And getting ahead in tech is nowhere near the autowin it used to be. It used to be that if your mirror got 3 harbs out before you could get in range to OC it didn’t matter if you had 90 pillars, your t2 is dead. Loya also outclassed t2 to a vast degree due to their emp stopping the brutal dmg of OC.

You can very easily use an acu to stop a terminal quantity of t3 bots from building up. If you let 8 bots build up and then get mad you died then sorry but you suck at the game. Maybe learn to not play into the strength of a tech advantage/learn to actually take initative when someone is teching up.

If you don’t see stealth and shields used often then you don’t really watch games close enough or you just pick bad players to watch. Sparkies are more of a teamgame thing, I’d say. Pretty useful for t2 pd rush while you eco. Wagners see use as do phim amphib and blazes (I guess).

[Deribus]

The biggest mistake FAF ever made aside from not banning Feather in the first month was implementing t3 maa.

What's wrong with T3 MAA? I can't think of any other scenario where a mobile navy/land/air unit cannot be countered with sufficient amounts of mobile navy/land/air units. Strats for all intents and purposes can't be hit with T1 or T2 MAA, and I haven't found T3 MAA to ever decrease my enjoyment of the game.

[MrTBSC]

The only one misreading what you wrote is yourself.

oh great add hominems .. realy makes you credible

You don’t really seem to have any idea what you’re upset about.

uhu ... except that the average FAF game is about throwing dull metal avalanches at each other for half an hour+ without any real variety ..

You’re once again proving that you don’t really watch a nice range of games. In teamgames the current issue is that siege bots and t4s aren’t able to punch through bases reliably so if anything they could use a boost. In ladder getting a tech lead is meant to put a mirror on a clock to either exploit map control gains or some eco advantage that they got while their mirror gained a tech lead.

If you don’t see stealth and shields used often then you don’t really watch games close enough or you just pick bad players to watch. Sparkies are more of a teamgame thing, I’d say. Pretty useful for t2 pd rush while you eco. Wagners see use as do phim amphib and blazes (I guess).

ah so you mean the casted tournaments and casted 1v1 games people send to the casters i chose to watch are poorly picked? tell me more ..
t2 amphibius units get pretty much only used when there is enough water to play with otherwise again rarely to not at all seen ..
having a tech lead should not mean that your lowtierunits are entirely outclassed or that hightier units should be fully able to wipe out armies consisting of lowtierunits on there own ..
also if you don´t feel that what i watched is represantativ of hightier FAFplay how bout you link me some videos (and no i´m not gonna steamlink just for the vault)

And getting ahead in tech is nowhere near the autowin it used to be. It used to be that if your mirror got 3 harbs out before you could get in range to OC it didn’t matter if you had 90 pillars, your t2 is dead. Loya also outclassed t2 to a vast degree due to their emp stopping the brutal dmg of OC.

You can very easily use an acu to stop a terminal quantity of t3 bots from building up.
If you let 8 bots build up and then get mad you died then sorry but you suck at the game. Maybe learn to not play into the strength of a tech advantage/learn to actually take initative when someone is teching up.

now you say .. oh suck it if you let it happen .. yea guess what this can happen in many ways with both players being equal .. now you mention OC as a counter to t3 assaults blocks ... what else is there that is not t3 as a counter, is not superisky in losing your com and that is actualy used?

[FtXCommando]

The biggest mistake FAF ever made aside from not banning Feather in the first month was implementing t3 maa.

What's wrong with T3 MAA? I can't think of any other scenario where a mobile navy/land/air unit cannot be countered with sufficient amounts of mobile navy/land/air units. Strats for all intents and purposes can't be hit with T1 or T2 MAA, and I haven't found T3 MAA to ever decrease my enjoyment of the game.

Because it adds nothing to the game and now has given motivation to the “well why can’t we make xtreme wars part of default faf” crowd.

The only times I can think of t3 maa mattering are when you got a t3 land hq and a t3 support fac and both are making an maa while you’re being fac locked. But tbh even if a dude was making an maa or a t3 engie for sams, you’d still be going for mexes and pgens so there is really no point.

Not like you’d be spamming up 30 maa to deal with 20 strats from killing your t4. You’d either sam creep and keep your facs producing land or you’d win air while the enemy is putting intense mass into strats.

[FtXCommando]

The only one misreading what you wrote is yourself.

oh great add hominems .. realy makes you credible

You don’t know what an ad hominem is.

ah so you mean the casted tournaments and casted 1v1 games people send to the casters i chose to watch are poorly picked? tell me more ..
t2 amphibius units get pretty much only used when there is enough water to play with otherwise again rarely to not at all seen ..
having a tech lead should not mean that your lowtierunits are entirely outclassed or that hightier units should be fully able to wipe armies out on there own ..

Yeah, pretty much. Only caster that is currently casting high level games and knows what he’s talking about is Jagged (mountain and thomas too but they aren’t as regular) and the occassional sentons cast by one of the sentons gang. Even if a caster casts a high level game, most of the time they don’t focus on what really won games. This isn’t really controversial.

Wagners get used because they can be super annoying on maps with minimal water like say Loki. Phim t2 amphib tank is actually pretty good because of the alpha.

Yeah, and the higher tech units don’t. Are you mad because 8 minutes after your mirror transitioned to t2 his army is superior to you while you did nothing and sat around making pointless extra units? Superior tech (outside of air) is not an immediate autowin. Even in air shitty micro will cause a dude with 10 asf to lose to an int swarm. Again, your complaints are out of touch with the meta by about a year.

now you say .. oh suck it if you let it happen .. yea guess what this can happen in many ways with both players being equal .. now you mention OC as a counter to t3 assaults blocks ... what else is there that is not t3 as a counter that is actualy used?

>explain that teching up costs you in map control or eco, just a logical statement between equal players
Response: ok but what if the guy got tech for free

Brilliant analysis mate, analytical casts are improving your read on the game.

Also dunno if you heard of it but t4 is in fact used to counter t3 sometimes. Also t1 arty. Also air. Also pd. Also navy depending on the map.

[MrTBSC]

You don’t know what an ad hominem is.

yea yea .. oh "you don´t understand your own shit you are writing and that makes your statement bullshit" bla bla ..

ah so you mean the casted tournaments and casted 1v1 games people send to the casters i chose to watch are poorly picked? tell me more ..
t2 amphibius units get pretty much only used when there is enough water to play with otherwise again rarely to not at all seen ..
having a tech lead should not mean that your lowtierunits are entirely outclassed or that hightier units should be fully able to wipe armies out on there own ..

Yeah, pretty much. Only caster that is currently casting high level games and knows what he’s talking about is Jagged (mountain and thomas too but they aren’t as regular) and the occassional sentons cast by one of the sentons gang. Even if a caster casts a high level game, most of the time they don’t focus on what really won games. This isn’t really controversial.

just watched jagged recently but the latest couple videos didn´t realy convince me that meta has changed much ..

Wagners get used because they can be super annoying on maps with minimal water like say Loki. Phim t2 amphib tank is actually pretty good because of the alpha.

what about blazes and riptides would those not be good against t1 spam or attacking other low health units?

Are you mad because 8 minutes after your mirror transitioned to t2 his army is superior to you while you did nothing and sat around making pointless extra units? Superior tech (outside of air) is not an immediate autowin. Even in air shitty micro will cause a dude with 10 asf to lose to an int swarm. Again, your complaints are out of touch with the meta by about a year.

how much superior should his army be when mine has like say 3 to 4 times "poinless extra units"?
should 5 rhinos be able to kill 20 mantis on their own? or if he has his 5 rhinos along with 20 mantis and a couple medusa should i lose with my 40 to 50 mantis and couple medusa?

should my army of 150 to 200 mantis lose against 10 bricks or 10 loyalists ? should i lose with say 100 mantis, 30 rhinos, 15 wagners cause i use them for their firingarc 20 medusa and 10 vipers? ( i´m not good at using hoplites) ...

it´s not a matter of about being mad it´s a matter of wanting to use compositions and make them work .. because to me simply spamming one good unit of the appropriet tier is boring and that is what i see most people do ..

what else is there that is not t3 as a counter that is actualy used?

Also t1 arty. Also air. Also pd.

so t1 arty and the all mighty pd for ground .. and that is it? what i am talking about is how effective are ground t2 and 1 once t3 hits the field

t4 effectiveness is obvious, air effectiveness is more or less obvious though i question if t1 bombers and t2 fighterbombers aren´t rather tickling percies, bricks and phim t3 tanks unless you bring signifant numbers of them or gunships ..
.. thing with naval is that they rather act as t2 at their lowest tier so t2 naval at the very least should be able to help against t3 considering their cost ..