Ladder maps are way too hard for 1v1 beginners

[corsair831]

Hello

I have experience playing team games, but am relatively new to 1v1's, and i have to say, the number of larger ocean maps makes it far too hard for beginners to play. For a pro player a larger map like that might take ~~30 minutes, but for someone who doesn't really know what they're doing it can take over an hour of fumbling about with transports, not really knowing what you're doing, not really learning anything.

Can you either split the map rotations into closer maps and larger maps, or perhaps add a greater quantity of smaller maps to the pool please? I am seeing a hell of a lot of opponents simply ctrl k at the lower tiers when they see some of the maps, and it's just not fun.

Please don't just say "Watch Replays!", because most newer players aren't going to do that, they're going to load up the map, spend 10 minutes messing about with transports, and get bored.

[tatsu]

that's fair. maps that new players generally find more manageable are single-lane maps of small scale like theta passage or baverly mountains or winter duel or slightly similar play style maps like four-leaf clover.

there is sentry point in the map pool, though. is it too multi-task? or too close proximity with the opponent?

what are your map ideas for the ladder pool?

[Plasma_Wolf]

First two things: Here is the ladder rotation discussion thread, so you can see some more points of view. I understand the issue you're raising but I think you're the first low-rated player to comment on map rotation...

2. Sentry Point is 5x5, and I would probably put it at the bottom of 5x5 maps suitable for lower rated players, due to the map composition, reclaim and heightmap.

The ladder rotation has been part of the discussion very often. The simple fact is that all the players together like all the maps pretty much similarly. While there are always maps on the ladder rotation that I will absolutely hate (right now Balvery Mountains is the prime example), I think the distribution is very diverse and it's done pretty well overall.

Right now there are 6 20x20 maps, and 24 10x10 and 5x5. A 20% rate of 20x20 maps is really not that much I think, and you're far more likely to hit a 10x10 or a 5x5 where the game won't take an hour because you're not sure of what you're doing. I also think that players quitting on seeing the map is equally varied. Some people will quit immediately if they see a 5x5 or a 10x10 map they don't like.

My past experiences of ladder rotations I didn't like were small pools and pools where a map type was badly represented. If we were to go from e.g. 6 20x20 maps to 3, then I think the 20x20 maps would be underrepresented.

[FtXCommando]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16383

There is a thread for ladder comments.

On the issue of more small maps, 5x5s are generally liked as much as 10x10s. However, I can guarantee if you restricted the people taking a survey of maps to 1500+, the people that enjoy 20x20s will increase and 5x5s will decrease. As you go up in rating, I would expect this trend to continue. 20x20s are an essential component in developing a player’s capabilities, particularly for understanding how to properly maintain eco while investing in navy/air.

Ladder is not meant to consist 100% of maps you enjoy to play. Otherwise you would just derive a pool consisting of 10x10 green land spam maps until people get bored of it and switch to 10x10 red land spam maps. It’s a balance of maps that are fun to play while providing a challenge for players that leads to an improvement in their gameplay. I’ve already discussed the ways I would divide the maps in potential pools in the thread above on page 2 with the rest of the ladder team.

I don’t plan on considering splitting the pool as I’ve already got plenty of things I want devs to work on first in regards to ladder (no repetition, veto, potentially going back to a very large pool). I don’t find a split pool to bring enough to the table to warrant the additional work it requires.

Also sentry point is 5x5.

[nine2]

Yeah split pool is a good idea for beginners.

[Morax]

I think "divisions" would help where beginners have a particular ladder pool, then intermediate, and finally a top-tier.

For example:

<1100 = more 5x5s, some 10x10s

1101-1600 = less 5x5s, mainly 10x10s, a couple 20x20

>1600 = everything goes, but much less 5x5

Just an example

[Gruffman]

I think "divisions" would help where beginners have a particular ladder pool, then intermediate, and finally a top-tier.

For example:

<1100 = more 5x5s, some 10x10s

1101-1600 = less 5x5s, mainly 10x10s, a couple 20x20

>1600 = everything goes, but much less 5x5

Just an example

I'd very much agree with this. There's such a huge learning curve for FAF that we should do all we reasonably can to help newer players and restricting the type & amount of maps at each `tier` is a great idea.

[Voodoo]

I'm playing this game since release and I have to agree. The number of larger ocean maps makes is far too hard for beginners and lazy old players like me to play. More than 30 apm are required and that is simply not feasible.

So only solution is a change to merely 5x5 land maps.

[Blodir]

Lets be honest supcom is just too hard lets go play fortnite instead

[corsair831]

I think restricting the maps to tier is a great idea, to help encourage players newer to 1v1 to play 1v1.

This seems to be rather an echo chamber for sarcastic more experienced players unfortunately. They are much better than me/most players at 1v1, they are able to play these more difficult maps with much greater ease, and they choose the map pool.

The best way to ease newer players in to playing 1v1 is indeed to have the majority of the maps be 5x5 land spam maps, with the frequency of more difficult to play maps increasing the more competent you get at 1v1's.

How many potentially excellent 1v1 players have we lost because they loaded 1v1 one or two times, saw an enormous intimidating map, and decided it was too hard, and they'd rather play gap of rohan instead? (There's a reason gap's so popular; it's not intimidating).