Ladder Rotation/System Comments

[FtXCommando]

It will be removed in future pools to avoid any potential copyright issues. It will not be removed from the current pool because it was in several 1v1 tournaments before and no one had complained about being unable to find their units. The biggest issue was a lack of clarity on whether units could cross a ravine on the north/south of the map. This was not large enough of an issue to remove it from the pool.

[Mad`Mozart]

Objectively a garbage map,

Sure

[SPL]

Hi there.
I'd like to ask FtX about the separation of ladder map pool into categories:
-5x5
-10x10
-20x20
Haven't you discussed this feature yet?
There're a lot buddies who used to press Ctrl+K instead of playin map they hate.
Somebody want to play a fast duel, somebody want to play a damn long 2 hours game at the evening.
So why don't you just give them ability to choose?

[Voodoo]

Hi there.
I'd like to ask FtX about the separation of ladder map pool into categories:
-5x5
-10x10
-20x20
Haven't you discussed this feature yet?
There're a lot buddies who used to press Ctrl+K instead of playin map they hate.
Somebody want to play a fast duel, somebody want to play a damn long 2 hours game at the evening.
So why don't you just give them ability to choose?

I also feel like quitting when I see a 20x20 map but I don't do it. Two separate map pools isn't a good solution in my eyes. The 1# ladder player should be good at all maps. That's why he is the best. Otherwise you would have to say I'm the best FA player if the map is small or large. Sounds a little bit weird. I still think the best would be if you can up and downvote a map. It's the old gpgnet system. So I could say I don't like setons but I like Finns. So I will see Finns more often then Setons.

[SPL]

The 1# ladder player should be good at all maps. That's why he is the best. Otherwise you would have to say I'm the best FA player if the map is small or large. Sounds a little bit weird.

As an option you can just make the leagues of this:
The best of 20x20, 10x10 and so on...
It's hard to realize and will take a hard rework, but I guess it could attract new players and bring back old ones into the ranked system.

[FtXCommando]

Hi there.
I'd like to ask FtX about the separation of ladder map pool into categories:
-5x5
-10x10
-20x20
Haven't you discussed this feature yet?
There're a lot buddies who used to press Ctrl+K instead of playin map they hate.
Somebody want to play a fast duel, somebody want to play a damn long 2 hours game at the evening.
So why don't you just give them ability to choose?

This solution is only really feasible from my perspective with a choice-based map pool that allows you (and your opponent) to prioritize certain maps over others in a larger pool. This allows people to give a bias to maps they wish to play without having any absolute control over the type of game they can play to absolutely manipulate trueskill. The main issue here is someone being willing to code it. All the math for the system has already been worked out but there are more important things that devs are currently working on.

I’m not interested in dividing the pool in the direction you mentioned because it begins to make the ladder trueskill incredibly inaccurate unless you make 3 different ratings. Then, if you do 3 ratings for 1v1, you’re probably going to get asked to do the same thing at least two times for each team matchmaker queue which brings us up to 9 ratings to keep track of. It’s just really needlessly complex.

This basically allows people to curate their ladder selection to only play the maps they prefer (vast majority of people want to do nothing but 5x5s or some 10x10s) and we’re back to the problem seen in global rating.

[SPL]

This basically allows people to curate their ladder selection to only play the maps they prefer (vast majority of people want to do nothing but 5x5s or some 10x10s) and we’re back to the problem seen in global rating.

That's why I've offered you to divide it into the categories.
But there's another option I came to:
You can just add map types played statistics (5x5, 10x10 and 20x20).
For example, just like we have the "Built units" statistics on a profile (Air, Land and Naval) the same thing we can do for the map types played (5x5, 10x10 and 20x20).
So everybody can see the trueskill of a ladder player on a certain map type.
That's the only simple solution I see to avoid rating division and that's how you can show the trueskill.

[FtXCommando]

Are people satisfied with the current ladder time length or would they prefer keeping maps for another week?

[Sir Prize]

Dunno how many people saw this post, I definitely missed it for the last two weeks. As I said to you in another thread a little while ago I would like more map stability. I ended up skimming the old automatch pool thread to see what I'd missed and from memory no one ever complained about slow map rotations unless it was because they were bored of the smaller pool, so I think it could be worth trying a 3 week rotation. Do we have any metrics to see how ladder activity is looking at the moment and to compare with after a change?

[FtXCommando]

Dunno how many people saw this post, I definitely missed it for the last two weeks. As I said to you in another thread a little while ago I would like more map stability. I ended up skimming the old automatch pool thread to see what I'd missed and from memory no one ever complained about slow map rotations unless it was because they were bored of the smaller pool, so I think it could be worth trying a 3 week rotation. Do we have any metrics to see how ladder activity is looking at the moment and to compare with after a change?

No. There really aren't any reasonable metrics to use as in order to eliminate other factors when analyzing the quantity of players using ladder, we'd need to probably do some serious long-term data queries. We know that the playerbase of ladder seems to stay constant at about 10% of games played on FAF. Changing things like ladder pool, additional functions of ladder, blah blah blah are purely aesthetic if your major concern is increasing the playerbase of ladder. The only time that ladder was above 10% of games was around 2013-2014 which may have to do with veto pool or it may have to do with the fact that it was early FAF and the only people that knew about FAF were hardcore veterans of the game that were predisposed to playing ladder.

Overall, I think 10% (15% being a potential max) is the natural share of ladder games for FAF.

I'll probably start doing 3 week pools with this coming ladder pool as it would work better with timetables for tmm and the multiple pool idea that will come with it.