Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Talk about general things concerning Forged Alliance Forever.

Moderators: FtXCommando, Ze Dogfather

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby FtXCommando » 17 Sep 2019, 03:14

It will be removed in future pools to avoid any potential copyright issues. It will not be removed from the current pool because it was in several 1v1 tournaments before and no one had complained about being unable to find their units. The biggest issue was a lack of clarity on whether units could cross a ravine on the north/south of the map. This was not large enough of an issue to remove it from the pool.
Are you upset? Are you happy? Are you a FAF Player? Come to the PC Discord and share your thoughts and build the community!

https://discord.gg/Y2dGU8X
User avatar
FtXCommando
Councillor - Players
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: 09 Jan 2017, 18:44
Has liked: 201 times
Been liked: 508 times
FAF User Name: FtXCommando

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby Mad`Mozart » 17 Sep 2019, 04:58

Quant wrote:Objectively a garbage map,

Sure
Mad`Mozart
Contributor
 
Posts: 1092
Joined: 10 Mar 2013, 19:09
Has liked: 138 times
Been liked: 431 times

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby SPL » 25 Sep 2019, 13:33

Hi there.
I'd like to ask FtX about the separation of ladder map pool into categories:
-5x5
-10x10
-20x20
Haven't you discussed this feature yet?
There're a lot buddies who used to press Ctrl+K instead of playin map they hate.
Somebody want to play a fast duel, somebody want to play a damn long 2 hours game at the evening.
So why don't you just give them ability to choose?
Nᴏᴡ sᴀʏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴡᴏʀᴅ.
User avatar
SPL
Crusader
 
Posts: 18
Joined: 21 Sep 2019, 14:00
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 2 times
FAF User Name: SPL

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby Voodoo » 25 Sep 2019, 13:52

Sötz wrote:Hi there.
I'd like to ask FtX about the separation of ladder map pool into categories:
-5x5
-10x10
-20x20
Haven't you discussed this feature yet?
There're a lot buddies who used to press Ctrl+K instead of playin map they hate.
Somebody want to play a fast duel, somebody want to play a damn long 2 hours game at the evening.
So why don't you just give them ability to choose?


I also feel like quitting when I see a 20x20 map but I don't do it. Two separate map pools isn't a good solution in my eyes. The 1# ladder player should be good at all maps. That's why he is the best. Otherwise you would have to say I'm the best FA player if the map is small or large. Sounds a little bit weird. I still think the best would be if you can up and downvote a map. It's the old gpgnet system. So I could say I don't like setons but I like Finns. So I will see Finns more often then Setons.
User avatar
Voodoo
Moderator
 
Posts: 2383
Joined: 21 Jan 2012, 14:59
Location: Germany
Has liked: 241 times
Been liked: 343 times
FAF User Name: Voodoo

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby SPL » 25 Sep 2019, 14:25

Voodoo wrote: The 1# ladder player should be good at all maps. That's why he is the best. Otherwise you would have to say I'm the best FA player if the map is small or large. Sounds a little bit weird.


As an option you can just make the leagues of this:
The best of 20x20, 10x10 and so on...
It's hard to realize and will take a hard rework, but I guess it could attract new players and bring back old ones into the ranked system.
Nᴏᴡ sᴀʏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴡᴏʀᴅ.
User avatar
SPL
Crusader
 
Posts: 18
Joined: 21 Sep 2019, 14:00
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 2 times
FAF User Name: SPL

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby FtXCommando » 25 Sep 2019, 21:14

Sötz wrote:Hi there.
I'd like to ask FtX about the separation of ladder map pool into categories:
-5x5
-10x10
-20x20
Haven't you discussed this feature yet?
There're a lot buddies who used to press Ctrl+K instead of playin map they hate.
Somebody want to play a fast duel, somebody want to play a damn long 2 hours game at the evening.
So why don't you just give them ability to choose?


This solution is only really feasible from my perspective with a choice-based map pool that allows you (and your opponent) to prioritize certain maps over others in a larger pool. This allows people to give a bias to maps they wish to play without having any absolute control over the type of game they can play to absolutely manipulate trueskill. The main issue here is someone being willing to code it. All the math for the system has already been worked out but there are more important things that devs are currently working on.

I’m not interested in dividing the pool in the direction you mentioned because it begins to make the ladder trueskill incredibly inaccurate unless you make 3 different ratings. Then, if you do 3 ratings for 1v1, you’re probably going to get asked to do the same thing at least two times for each team matchmaker queue which brings us up to 9 ratings to keep track of. It’s just really needlessly complex.

This basically allows people to curate their ladder selection to only play the maps they prefer (vast majority of people want to do nothing but 5x5s or some 10x10s) and we’re back to the problem seen in global rating.
Are you upset? Are you happy? Are you a FAF Player? Come to the PC Discord and share your thoughts and build the community!

https://discord.gg/Y2dGU8X
User avatar
FtXCommando
Councillor - Players
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: 09 Jan 2017, 18:44
Has liked: 201 times
Been liked: 508 times
FAF User Name: FtXCommando

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby SPL » 25 Sep 2019, 22:26

FtXCommando wrote:This basically allows people to curate their ladder selection to only play the maps they prefer (vast majority of people want to do nothing but 5x5s or some 10x10s) and we’re back to the problem seen in global rating.

That's why I've offered you to divide it into the categories.
But there's another option I came to:
You can just add map types played statistics (5x5, 10x10 and 20x20).
For example, just like we have the "Built units" statistics on a profile (Air, Land and Naval) the same thing we can do for the map types played (5x5, 10x10 and 20x20).
So everybody can see the trueskill of a ladder player on a certain map type.
That's the only simple solution I see to avoid rating division and that's how you can show the trueskill.
Attachments
65f994d5.png
65f994d5.png (109.64 KiB) Viewed 1947 times
Nᴏᴡ sᴀʏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴡᴏʀᴅ.
User avatar
SPL
Crusader
 
Posts: 18
Joined: 21 Sep 2019, 14:00
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 2 times
FAF User Name: SPL

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby FtXCommando » 02 Feb 2020, 05:57

Are people satisfied with the current ladder time length or would they prefer keeping maps for another week?
Are you upset? Are you happy? Are you a FAF Player? Come to the PC Discord and share your thoughts and build the community!

https://discord.gg/Y2dGU8X
User avatar
FtXCommando
Councillor - Players
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: 09 Jan 2017, 18:44
Has liked: 201 times
Been liked: 508 times
FAF User Name: FtXCommando

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby Sir Prize » 17 Feb 2020, 09:34

Dunno how many people saw this post, I definitely missed it for the last two weeks. As I said to you in another thread a little while ago I would like more map stability. I ended up skimming the old automatch pool thread to see what I'd missed and from memory no one ever complained about slow map rotations unless it was because they were bored of the smaller pool, so I think it could be worth trying a 3 week rotation. Do we have any metrics to see how ladder activity is looking at the moment and to compare with after a change?
User avatar
Sir Prize
Evaluator
 
Posts: 571
Joined: 24 May 2014, 10:29
Has liked: 73 times
Been liked: 91 times
FAF User Name: Sir-Prize

Re: Ladder Rotation/System Comments

Postby FtXCommando » 17 Feb 2020, 11:07

Sir Prize wrote:Dunno how many people saw this post, I definitely missed it for the last two weeks. As I said to you in another thread a little while ago I would like more map stability. I ended up skimming the old automatch pool thread to see what I'd missed and from memory no one ever complained about slow map rotations unless it was because they were bored of the smaller pool, so I think it could be worth trying a 3 week rotation. Do we have any metrics to see how ladder activity is looking at the moment and to compare with after a change?


No. There really aren't any reasonable metrics to use as in order to eliminate other factors when analyzing the quantity of players using ladder, we'd need to probably do some serious long-term data queries. We know that the playerbase of ladder seems to stay constant at about 10% of games played on FAF. Changing things like ladder pool, additional functions of ladder, blah blah blah are purely aesthetic if your major concern is increasing the playerbase of ladder. The only time that ladder was above 10% of games was around 2013-2014 which may have to do with veto pool or it may have to do with the fact that it was early FAF and the only people that knew about FAF were hardcore veterans of the game that were predisposed to playing ladder.

Overall, I think 10% (15% being a potential max) is the natural share of ladder games for FAF.

I'll probably start doing 3 week pools with this coming ladder pool as it would work better with timetables for tmm and the multiple pool idea that will come with it.
Are you upset? Are you happy? Are you a FAF Player? Come to the PC Discord and share your thoughts and build the community!

https://discord.gg/Y2dGU8X
User avatar
FtXCommando
Councillor - Players
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: 09 Jan 2017, 18:44
Has liked: 201 times
Been liked: 508 times
FAF User Name: FtXCommando

Previous

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest