How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Talk about general things concerning Forged Alliance Forever.

Moderators: FtXCommando, Ze Dogfather

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby ZLO_RD » 02 Jun 2018, 14:41

i had no options to change voltage in bios, or at least i didn't notice them.
also maybe hiperthreating does increase heat output for like.. idk 3%? but i think it just does not affect anything at all, especially on windows 10. i did very short test and didn't notice any difference. could not do any full tests cause i had to give laptop back to customer and make sure he will not notice that i was testing my stuff on his laptop xDDD

oh also addictionally i wanted to test GPU, it is internal intel HD graphics 620 or something like that. works acceptable with supcom on low graphics.

Edit: (ok i read that HT does usually increase heat output, but only beacause it allows to load CPU to 100% more often or more efficient somehow... if CPU works faster with hypertrading then it probably consumes more power... not sure that there will be any effect if CPU is heat throttling. No idea if i am correct here or not.
http://www.youtube.com/user/dimatularus
http://www.twitch.tv/zlo_rd
TA4Life: "At the very least we are not slaves to the UI"
User avatar
ZLO_RD
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 2265
Joined: 27 Oct 2011, 13:57
Location: Russia, Tula
Has liked: 303 times
Been liked: 400 times
FAF User Name: ZLO

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 02 Jun 2018, 15:11

ZLO_RD wrote:i had no options to change voltage in bios, or at least i didn't notice them.
also maybe hiperthreating does increase heat output for like.. idk 3%? but i think it just does not affect anything at all, especially on windows 10. i did very short test and didn't notice any difference. could not do any full tests cause i had to give laptop back to customer and make sure he will not notice that i was testing my stuff on his laptop xDDD

oh also addictionally i wanted to test GPU, it is internal intel HD graphics 620 or something like that. works acceptable with supcom on low graphics.

Edit: (ok i read that HT does usually increase heat output, but only beacause it allows to load CPU to 100% more often or more efficient somehow... if CPU works faster with hypertrading then it probably consumes more power... not sure that there will be any effect if CPU is heat throttling. No idea if i am correct here or not.


Well Hyperthreading will be very nice if you are redering videos and so on, and will certainly increase heat output noticeably in that case. But for FAF? Pretty much not needed there. Leaving it on might be a bit warmer, but since you dont need it for FAF you might as well turn it off.

If you did not find the Vcore voltage settings in the UEFI, you should try out the XTU software that intel provides. It should be there :) .
QuestionMarkNoob
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 171
Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 15:55
Has liked: 48 times
Been liked: 24 times

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby Endranii » 02 Jun 2018, 15:27

Well if you are just playing FAF disabling HT might be good choice as it will give you some more ipc due to running single thread on core instead of 2.
And yes it works. My R5 2600 in legacy mode can score 2-3 more points on same settings compared to standard settings but it's pain in the arse for other workloads to restart PC each time XD.


And no, you can't always access voltages and shit in UEFI/BIOS. It all depends on what you have bought as some OEM are really fixed on making it inaccessible.
Endranii
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 255
Joined: 16 Feb 2017, 18:07
Has liked: 83 times
Been liked: 50 times
FAF User Name: Empty_Spot

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby Katharsas » 02 Jun 2018, 16:32

E8400-CV wrote:
QuestionMarkNoob wrote:There is also the option to use Kyro's Lobby to just kick out anyone with a CPU over 250 and so on. Ofc that won't fix the problem with some idividuals faking their CPU rating and then joining a game just to go -4 at min 20 with it, but a list should solve this problem easily.


How would that list thing work? You would have to individually look-up player to get player ID and then check some Excel sheet?


If the performance test could be made longer, it could be done like this:

When a new player installs FAF, the performance test is done (it needs to stress test the CPU longer than currently). Then the CPU-Name and the test score is sent to server. Server has a bunch of scores for every CPU-name (form various players). Server calculates average/mean and ignores outliers (people who maliciously send wrong score to server).

In the lobby, the client displays this average/mean number for the CPU of each player.
Advantages: No cheating, stress test does not need to be run often, realistic values
Disadvantages: Some people will have bad cooling (-> below average) and some people will have good overclock (-> above average), but they will have the same score if the CPU is the same.

Edit: Ok it doesnt work against cheating. People could simply give wrong CPU-name to the client. So not many advantages.
Katharsas
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 164
Joined: 29 May 2015, 21:44
Has liked: 22 times
Been liked: 34 times
FAF User Name: Katharsas

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 03 Jun 2018, 01:25

ZLO_RD wrote:I had same question
https://youtu.be/gW-xw_rTWRI

"Tested" 8gen u cpu. 170 cpu score. Drops to -1 around 19:30 on stons

Edit
I own a athlon x3 440 no oc. It is pretty bad with setons or something higher than 4v4.
Checked pentium g4400 at work it is pretty amazing in comparison to my athlon.
G3440 at work tiny bi worse, but almost same. Thought I have to close all backgroud apps, can't always do that at work
Also own g3420 it is ofc same shit, but I have not time to do any tests. Just checked cpu score - around 200.


Should be able to log CPU frequency with something like MSI Afterburner.

Yes, the -U CPU's aren't made for constant load. They can run very fast... for a short time... once in a while. I'm pretty sure that my laptops' i7-2860QM can still outrun all the new -U stuff.

If you want to buy new, cheap, for FAF; ... look into Pentium G5400; fixed (I mean; no Turbo boost) 3.7 GHz with 51W TDP. Will probably run equal with stock i7-4770K. The desktop Pentium won't throttle. Can be combined with a H310 motherboard.

-U CPU's are very nice for the laptop manufacturers. They can skimp on cooling, power delivery, and still keep flashing the "i7" brand. The average user won't notice anyway, since next to nobody does anything the results in CPU load for a longer time.

2009's cheapeast full power desktop i7 (the i7-860) was surpassed by the 2011's cheapeast i5 (i5-2300) in both single-threaded and multi-threaded applications. In turn... that i5-2300 from 2011 was surpassed in some applications by 2014's i3-4160, which in turn was passed by 2016' Pentium G4560. Yet somehow people still consider "i7" to be the holy grail. Even though many i7's are slower than a new full-power desktop Celeron. And for FAF... some Core 2 Duo's will outperform even earlier and slower i7's!

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
E8400-CV wrote: The -U thing slowing down is a real problem. You yourself noted your -U is more like 250 than 160. And the higher FX OC's just get throttling later in the game due to temperature or motherboard power-limit; making them on the surface show the same behavior of the -U laptops.


That might be true for some FX systems with really cheap coolers/mobos/weak VRMs/little cooling for the MOSFETS, but all in all I would say that FX-systems are okay. Especially because they are soldered, and an insane overclock is not even needed


For fcks sake... they are not. Take the rather common FX-8350. You need to begin with a 25% OC to even get it near parity with an i5-2500... from 2011. And most FX's are even worse. The one that out of the box is the least un-decent -the FX-9590- is also the one that is most likely to be sitting in an inadequate motherboard. The people with money never bought the FX's to begin with.. so cheapass motherboards are rather commonplace.

Katharsas wrote:
E8400-CV wrote:
QuestionMarkNoob wrote:There is also the option to use Kyro's Lobby to just kick out anyone with a CPU over 250 and so on. Ofc that won't fix the problem with some idividuals faking their CPU rating and then joining a game just to go -4 at min 20 with it, but a list should solve this problem easily.


How would that list thing work? You would have to individually look-up player to get player ID and then check some Excel sheet?


If the performance test could be made longer, it could be done like this:

When a new player installs FAF, the performance test is done (it needs to stress test the CPU longer than currently). Then the CPU-Name and the test score is sent to server. Server has a bunch of scores for every CPU-name (form various players). Server calculates average/mean and ignores outliers (people who maliciously send wrong score to server).

In the lobby, the client displays this average/mean number for the CPU of each player.
Advantages: No cheating, stress test does not need to be run often, realistic values
Disadvantages: Some people will have bad cooling (-> below average) and some people will have good overclock (-> above average), but they will have the same score if the CPU is the same.

Edit: Ok it doesnt work against cheating. People could simply give wrong CPU-name to the client. So not many advantages.


Could also just lookup the Passmark Single Thread score.

I think the larger amount isn't cheating but people that read "i7" and think they own the fastest gear while they aren't even aware they have a -U CPU.
E8400-CV
Evaluator
 
Posts: 849
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 21:00
Has liked: 29 times
Been liked: 32 times
FAF User Name: jcvjcvjcvjcv

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 03 Jun 2018, 02:25

Here, another episode of idiocy;
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues/2434
... blames CPU bench for giving his shitty Q6600 a score it deserves
... think his CPU is on top of everything, yet provides screenshots that show the exact opposite

That thing is from early 2007!!!

Lol...

And then ChrisKitching provides him with a way to make up a bench number out of thin air. Just great!
E8400-CV
Evaluator
 
Posts: 849
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 21:00
Has liked: 29 times
Been liked: 32 times
FAF User Name: jcvjcvjcvjcv

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby QuestionMarkNoob » 03 Jun 2018, 16:14

E8400-CV wrote:
For fcks sake... they are not. Take the rather common FX-8350. You need to begin with a 25% OC to even get it near parity with an i5-2500... from 2011. And most FX's are even worse. The one that out of the box is the least un-decent -the FX-9590- is also the one that is most likely to be sitting in an inadequate motherboard. The people with money never bought the FX's to begin with.. so cheapass motherboards are rather commonplace.



It is not about coming close to a certain CPU (like the 2500k) by overclocking, it is about getting a ~230 rated CPU and getting a PLAYABLE experience with little slowdown. This has never been about comparing Intel CPUs with AMD.

Reaching 4.7Ghz should be pretty easy with an FX8350. And hat should result in a CPU rating of about 230 if you have no background tasks. You can do that with many (but not all) CPUs if you overclock. The FX series chips are insanely good overclockers and most people I know, who own an FX system, have overclocked it. There is nothing wrong with many FX CPUs for this game, though they are not great either. When overclocked, they are OK, and that is what this is all about is'nt it?

Concerning your Mobo argument: AMD mobos have always had a better value compared to Intel mobos (even now). You got considerably more for your money with an AMD chipset compared to Intel. So you cannot really blame anyone for buying AMD over Intel.

Also: Noone pared a 9590 with a bad motherboard, because the CPU can only run on very specific mmotherboards without killing the VRMs or the MOSFETs on it. The motherboards you could have pared it with are on the same level as Intel X series motherboards, who have to deliver a similar amount of power to the CPU. No further comment there...

But that was'nt all! Host a CPU<250 game of any kind and kick anyone over the 250 mark. Then ask what CPUs they have, and you will always have someone with a 230 rated FX CPU in the lobby. And guess what, he will be fine ingame ;)
QuestionMarkNoob
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 171
Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 15:55
Has liked: 48 times
Been liked: 24 times

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby Endranii » 03 Jun 2018, 16:39

And as you were asking mainly about seton, then most people have CPU's of 236 and lower, at least from those who play nearly everyday so the lag is not really a problem(unless farms start's streaming kappa kappa). There are few guys with cpu's around 250-270 and turing with his U chips scoring 300 points :D. So no you won't have problems getting nice game going. And if you really are so gung ho why not just send them free cpu's so you can enjoy your lag free game?
Endranii
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 255
Joined: 16 Feb 2017, 18:07
Has liked: 83 times
Been liked: 50 times
FAF User Name: Empty_Spot

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby E8400-CV » 03 Jun 2018, 22:54

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
E8400-CV wrote:
For fcks sake... they are not. Take the rather common FX-8350. You need to begin with a 25% OC to even get it near parity with an i5-2500... from 2011. And most FX's are even worse. The one that out of the box is the least un-decent -the FX-9590- is also the one that is most likely to be sitting in an inadequate motherboard. The people with money never bought the FX's to begin with.. so cheapass motherboards are rather commonplace.



It is not about coming close to a certain CPU (like the 2500k) by overclocking, it is about getting a ~230 rated CPU and getting a PLAYABLE experience with little slowdown. This has never been about comparing Intel CPUs with AMD.


i5-2500 is about the bottom for playability, so comparing to that works just fine.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:Reaching 4.7Ghz should be pretty easy with an FX8350. And hat should result in a CPU rating of about 230 if you have no background tasks. You can do that with many (but not all) CPUs if you overclock. The FX series chips are insanely good overclockers and most people I know, who own an FX system, have overclocked it. There is nothing wrong with many FX CPUs for this game, though they are not great either. When overclocked, they are OK, and that is what this is all about is'nt it?


So they are not fine, except [insert gazillion exceptions].

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:Concerning your Mobo argument: AMD mobos have always had a better value compared to Intel mobos (even now).


Most are just loaded with cheap stuff, you can do the same with a board for Intel CPU's. Just look for a decent NIC on an AM4 board and you already topped the €110 mark...

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:You got considerably more for your money with an AMD chipset compared to Intel. So you cannot really blame anyone for buying AMD over Intel.


You got less for less money, value-wise that is often not that good.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:Also: Noone pared a 9590 with a bad motherboard,


People did that all the time.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:because the CPU can only run on very specific mmotherboards without killing the VRMs or the MOSFETs on it.


And the latter part is exactly what happened.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:The motherboards you could have pared it with are on the same level as Intel X series motherboards, who have to deliver a similar amount of power to the CPU. No further comment there...


Not really. System consumption for i7-4820K is about half compared to FX-9590. And contrary to the Intel X platform, AMD didn't make a hard break between the platforms... which was the cause of CPU's that used too much being combined with motherboards that couldn't deliver in the first place.

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:But that was'nt all! Host a CPU<250 game of any kind and kick anyone over the 250 mark. Then ask what CPUs they have, and you will always have someone with a 230 rated FX CPU in the lobby. And guess what, he will be fine ingame ;)


Haha, you still don't get it. 250 is already sh*t.

Either way; move your AMD preaching elsewhere.
E8400-CV
Evaluator
 
Posts: 849
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 21:00
Has liked: 29 times
Been liked: 32 times
FAF User Name: jcvjcvjcvjcv

Re: How is simspeed lag in 2018?

Postby Endranii » 03 Jun 2018, 23:31

No, honestly man, just send them free CPU's and problem fixed. You will get nowhere with that attitude, as if complaining about people belongings would make them buy better stuff...
Endranii
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 255
Joined: 16 Feb 2017, 18:07
Has liked: 83 times
Been liked: 50 times
FAF User Name: Empty_Spot

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest