Mapping Team

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Mapping Team

Postby FtXCommando » 16 May 2018, 13:20

As we all know, the M&M position was opened up and MisterK was given the responsibility after the recent election. Now one of the things MisterK has done is create a team of individuals that will be responsible for going through the vault in order to determine what kind of maps are supposed to be "acceptable" and which ones must be "hidden." You might read that and say to yourself that it sounds like a totally reasonable idea. Obviously the vault is fairly huge and it would be a lot of work for one man to just not only go through the entire vault but deal with new maps as well. The creation of this team is not my concern but rather it is the person that has been given responsibility over this team as well as the degree of autonomy that this individual has been given.

Image

This is MisterK's idea for the team he has created. For those that do not know, LichKing has been put in charge of a team of individuals such as Morax, Sid, Super, Evan, Blue_Owl, etc from what I can tell. The notion is to ignore the past of what these players have done in order to give them a chance to "redeem" themselves in the eyes of the community. Obviously some of these players do not really need redemption and I don't mean to say that all the players that I wrote down are some faf untouchables. I do not really disagree with this idea. I do however have an extreme worry about someone like Super having a presence on the team as I feel that someone that has shown that he is willing to abuse client code to crash the games of others, threaten the entire community, and constantly maintain himself as a thorn in the side of FAF should not be given any position. I'm fine with someone like Sid having a low level role that revolves around picking maps out of the client, however. My problem mainly revolves around LichKing.

So let's look at why I feel there is a problem with LichKing. LichKing was made the authority on "maps" under MisterK and effectively acts as the organizer of the rest of the people helping the M&M Councillor. This is fine and even if I think LichKing is a poor choice to lead a team, it is ultimately the choice of MisterK. Where I take huge issue with this appointment is the fact that LichKing has been given authority to hide maps in the vault. This is a person that cannot be trusted with the authority to do such actions. Plenty of people here are aware that LichKing is a person that has a deep distaste for maps such as the gap variants to the point that he had written in his M&M application that he plans on pushing people away from these "bad" maps. Looking back at the M&M applications, I saw that he had edited his post once I asked him to explain why some maps are "bad" maps. You might see this and assume it means that he realized that it was a silly statement that could not be backed by any reasonable criteria. I would still argue it is a terrible idea to make a person who would say such things in his application, even if he later deleted it, in charge of mapping. In fact it was the major reason I kept telling people to vote in anyone but him. However, it is fair to say that he might have changed the way he thinks after the election. Yet I really don't see this being the case.

MisterK and those responsible for looking at maps created a google spreadsheet of maps that need to be hidden and the reason for why they must be hidden. For the sake of the mapping team, I won't post the sheet here but I will post some clips of the sheet.

LichKing:
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Here are the "reasons" he gets rid of various dual gaps. Now here one of the random versions that I took from this list:

Image

You might argue that the map should still be hidden because it is outdated or there is a new version, but I don't feel that is a relevant argument. The point is that LichKing wanted to hide these dual gaps for an ulterior reason. The reason he puts on the doc is clearly false as we can see above. I feel that LichKing does not care whether these maps are "played" because

1) if this counts as not played then open palms is also a map that is not played.
2) he had shown past behavior that gives a far more reasonable explanation for his desire to hide the maps; his extreme hatred towards any map he deems as not "worth" being hosted.

LichKing is trying to hide his animosity through fake reasons to remove maps. I would argue that this is an individual that deserves no authority in a mapping team, not even to suggest removals. However, I do not think it is possible to argue that he should have the authority to remove maps from the vault. He clearly either lacks the desire to actually look through these maps and put a map down for removal without actually checking whether the reason was true or he is lying in order to further his own agenda.

Now when I addressed MisterK about these issues, I was told that he was training his team and that some mistakes should be allowed. I do not find the behavior by LichKing to be excusable and I also do not find MisterK's inability to check whether LichKing's reasoning for the removal was legitimate excusable. One of the reasons MisterK gave to keep LichKing, once he was pressed, was that he would curtail any excess of power and oversee any map removal he does. However, the dual gap version I had shown above was in fact removed from the vault and the reasoning for its' removal was completely false.

Now there are other outrageous notes in the google doc. However, I do not mind if individuals with no authority are created poor reasons for map removals so long as MisterK is responsibly going through those reasons and examining whether the map should be removed or not. While I'm willing to accept that he made an error in trusting LichKing here, I'm only willing to accept it as error under one of two conditions:

1) The removal of LichKing from any position that gives him ANY access to the vault
2) The removal of access to the vault from the position that LichKing is in

In summation, the purpose of the M&M position, when it comes to mapping, should be to clear the vault of redundant maps and other custodial matters. It should not be determining what maps people should be playing. I feel that LichKing is overstepping the authority he should NOT have been given in order to manipulate the maps people can play and that is inexcusable.

I hope the rest of the community can see why I had to make this case. For those wondering why I had to handle this on the forums, I tried to deal with MisterK personally but he refused to listen to me. I hope enough people can voice a concern that he is pushed to take action in some way.
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby speed2 » 16 May 2018, 13:42

I left that discord since super is welcome there.
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby Myxir » 16 May 2018, 13:42

A system of judgement without strict guidelines? Allowing someone to remove maps arbitrarily for any (made up) reason? How could that possibly fail?
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby biass » 16 May 2018, 13:43

I'm here to add an additional point of major interest.

A huge part of what checked the power of a map councillor, in both the past (with speed2) and now, was the constraint that a mapper be contacted about their map being potentially removed from the vault, and be given the chance to fix it to a standard (that was supposed to be pre-determined) or approve its removal. This was a founding principal of the position that in my opinion enabled the agreement between two parties with very different strategies.

As the uploader and author of "Dual Gap EP Tropical Paradise Resort Edition, Dual Gap EP V2, Dual Gap EP V3, and Dual Gap EP V4, i have not been contacted about the removal of this content through any medium, no IRC message, no forum message, no discord message.

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but when influenced by the ethos of the person(s) removing the content. I would argue that the content removal was intentionally hidden to avoid justified outrage. Be reminded that this uproar might not have occurred if i didn't by chance join the Maps And Mods Discord server and take a look around.

I had hoped that the new Map and Mod Councillor would have created an atmosphere that encourages the addition of new content, new life, to the vault. I thoroughly believe what is in place here is a mapping hit squad founded on elitism, and a destructive misuse of the power to add and remove content. That being said, I remove my prior vote of confidence towards the current team. This could have been avoided very easily, and it pains me to see it has happened regardless.

~ An officially returned, biass.
Map thread: https://bit.ly/2PBsa5H

Petricpwnz wrote:biass on his campaign to cleanse and remake every single map of FAF because he is an untolerating reincarnation of mapping hitler
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby SilentWarrior » 16 May 2018, 14:35

FtXCommando wrote: I tried to deal with MisterK personally but he refused to listen to me.



Did I imagine the three hours we typed in aeolus~? my hands feel tired.

I refused to make decisions on the spot and did not agree with all your arguments. I thought that was clear?

Imagine me not listening to people, might be old age.
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby FtXCommando » 16 May 2018, 14:39

Image

Don't ignore my post by responding to one paragraph of it.

You did not listen to my warnings, and I didn't even need to wait to find an example of LichKing abusing his authority.
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby SilentWarrior » 16 May 2018, 16:03

FtXCommando wrote:Image

Don't ignore my post by responding to one paragraph of it.

You did not listen to my warnings



The point was, you ignored my points, that I heard and understood your concerns and you must be patient and trust me. I did not take the role of M&M Councillor without the element of trust or maturity as my main strength.

You are not the first person to inform me of my decision to include Lich. So, it's not news to me now.

As far as influence is concerned, I am influenced by everyone.
I will make a detailed reply to all you have put into your post.

And if people want to leave the Discord I have created because of one person or another, I cannot stop them. But, it would be nice to be informed, rather than read about it in comments in this post.

Going back to your point about abuse.
Are you not making the same mistake you accuse me of? You're seeing one part of the work done by others, and you're not seeing your standard of work being implemented. Where I see lazy writing, you see abuse.

If this matter continues and old wounds are brought up, then this will get messy very fast. No one benefits and we go back to where we were.

I think I should let my team answer your concerns because I have spent the best part of today talking to you and others in #aeolus.
But, to me, this looks personal. You haven't spent the time I have speaking to my team. So, I'm in a better position to know what their intentions are.
This goes back to my initial point about taking things out of context. Where things are not clear to you, you use your experience to fill the gaps. That may be fine in most cases, but in this one, you happen to be dealing with me and I think you have not seen enough of me and the work that I can do.

Whether we make mistakes or not, there is progress. Without progress, we are a stagnate community, waiting for the lights to turn off. (I'm waiting for someone to take only this part to show)

I see 70% of the daytime faf players from one nation, i.e. Russia
They have next to minimal involvement in faf other than playing.
Yet, upon further inspection, you see coders, modders, mappers, casters, streamers and teachers of battle.
I saw one Russian come into #aeolus today and ask why do you guys hate Russians?
He was called names, his intelligence was mocked and on top of that, he was called 'gay', which in Russian means one of the lowest things you could call a man.
Did I see anyone help him?
No, this community has for too long allowed such behaviour, and I've seen enough of it to know it's more than true.
When you question whether someone has the authority to decide over something, then I question your connection to the human race. Because this is not how human beings should respond to one another. So, if I rub shoulders with you, does that mean I endorse hard cold behaviour? No, but I accept that you have the right to have your opinion. But, if that is so, then so should everyone else, Including Lich.
Whether he tells it crudely or simply, you've taken what he's done and said out of context with his position.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who have one view, but when it comes to working, they work hard and concentrate on the job.

If all I saw was, what the general community shows me, then I wouldn't know the problems that are really holding back this community. So I need a pair of eyes that are different. Am I here to explain every decision I make? That would be tiresome.

And before you go on about, we're only talking about this one guy, well maybe two, ok really three..... well when does that stop, until all the faces you see are the ones you like to see. Then I might as well come to FAF Discord.

Either, Trust me as a member of the council or present some body of work. Because procrastination is destroying this community.

And picking up bits and pieces from here and there does not present a valid argument, I' tried and you shot me out the sky.
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby duel gap player » 16 May 2018, 16:12

A lot of those dual gaps are older copies and often times people make mistakes hosting them. The dual gap that is actually played is not in the list.

I would keep the latest dual gap version and maybe the first dual gap for historical purposes. The rest can be deleted, stop being a hoarder.
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby Endranii » 16 May 2018, 16:13

Anyway I just want to hear why are you still defending him after data manipulation that clearly is enforcing his own agenda of clearing the map vault of maps that are not to his liking.

If you lie in spreadsheets you are finished TBH, that shit is meant as documentation of why was such and such decision made, and If I can't crunch the numbers 'cuz I already know that they were fiddled with then don't expect me to listen to anyone who is responsible for it.

Not to say the lack of communication with people who brought us this maps to play with. If this were WoT then you people would be already blacklisted from all proper alliance for such behaviour.
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Re: Mapping Team

Postby duel gap player » 16 May 2018, 16:17

he is not deleting the real dual gap. You guys clearly don't play duel gap otherwise you would know it's not the version everyone plays on. The older versions are imbalanced and bad in many ways as well.
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