Why FAF competitive scene is dying

[tatsu]

Sorry for the necro....

- Why is faf dying? -

/viewtopic. ... 90#p173021

I dunno you tell me. you'd think to be able to make such a statement the slope would be noticeably downwards but instead it's noticeably upwards.

[FtXCommando]

Maps like Wonder, Setons, Canis, Twin Rivers and etc. They are examples of good maps. That challenge the player and are both good balance wise and looks. I am gonna admit that these maps are overplayed....

Overplayed garbage tbh. The only reason senton is held to such a high standard is precisely BECAUSE faf players are so inept at general gameplay that it’s the only big teamgame map that high rated players can play on that won’t be decided by min 8. That and the fact it has the exact same problem of the dual gap maps you hate with players just sticking to it because it’s all they know.

Wonder: To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Adaptive Wonder. The build orders are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of manual reclaim most of the eco will go over a typical GAPPERS head. There’s also our spam-based outlook, which is deftly woven into our LADDER-LIKE playstyle- our personal philosophy draws heavily from Sun Tzu literature and Nazi strategy, for instance. The 1300 (high ranked) pros understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of the playstyle, to realise that they’re not just efficient- they say something deep about FAF. As a consequence people (just kidding GAP players aren't human) who dislike Adaptive Wonder truly ARE noobs- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the unit mix in my trademark side bo “5 tanks 1 scout 1 arty” which itself is a cryptic reference to Manstein’s usage of mass tanks in the blitzkrieg. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated GAP simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as my genius wit unfolds itself on their computer monitor. What fools.. how I pity them.

Basically, the players that inhabit these maps are doing the same things you’re calling dual gap players out for. We got some 1900 that farmed 600-700 rating purely from burgerzone twin rivers games. We got PLENTY of 1700s that can only play their rating on one slot in wonder. Canis has their own mini-sentons community too.

2) Playerbase, Now people are gonna talk shit all day about this. Lets be honest, the playerbase of FAF is mostly toxic and are a bunch of assholes. If you even able to host a good map and get it full. We have the next issue the playerbase... when you get in a game, your expecting teamwork because well... its a teamgame. Well, no... most of time your team is yalling calling you shit and just arguing... quitting (Air is garbage GG) and just all around being assholes and showing zero teamwork. Im not gonna talk more about this...

Relative to other game communities I’d argue FAF has an immense willingness to assist new players. How many high rated players have attempted to train new players on FAF for no compensation? I imagine the percentage is going to be quite high compared to a lot of other games.

For example Suzuji, who is a 3000 Rated Player, hes probably a true rating of 2300 or 2200 from what i've seen.

I agree. He would definitely rape BH 9-6 in a BO15 I’d say 4Head.

I will say ladder is a much more accurate represent of skill, because your playing on many maps. Its a 1v1 so you have to carry yourself and do able to eco, fight, use strategy, adapt, and think quickly.

Relative to global which means nothing? I guess so. Ladder skill is still a horrible metric to translate to teamgame capability, particularly as you get into higher rated games.

Sadly, nobody plays ladder including myself. Because the ladder pool is so bad and its getting worst.

:imfine:

Why is it only getting worse, dude that doesn’t play ladder?

[Voodoo]

- Why is faf dying? -

At first, no FAF isn't dying. Two days ago I saw over 1000 users online. Also the topic of this thread is slightly different. The competitive scene is dying and not the whole project. You wrote down your view but you can't see all from your point. There is a large number of players which are only playing survival games, coop missions or with friends only. Also some players are only playing 1 vs 1 ladder but you won't find them as your rating might be too far away.

So when you look at me for example. I stopped playing competitive as I lack motivation to learn all the new maps and that is necessary if you want to reach the top 10. So I also like it to play some survival or zone control games with real life friends. From time to time we join a normal game on wonder for example but we know that it's not easy to win a game as we aren't playing very often. So I'm not playing all these dual gap maps as I know how it ends. You can't win against someone who plays this map every day and yes the players can be toxic. It's the same on setons and I know they will blame me if I lose against a 1400 rated player but it can happen.

The game is very hard to learn for new players. It takes months and only a few players feel like training someone for months. To say you have to learn the game for your own. That's why a lot of new players are giving up.

Just as a thought. We can fix a lot of problems if we hide the global ladder but as you know all are just looking at their points.

Just wanted to give you a different point of view. HF&GL

[Cuddles]

What is this talk of removing rating in a thread about the competitive scene dying?

Just bring back rewards for playing, tiers/divisions in ladder and make it 3 months seasons. Or whatever other time period is optimal for a season in faf. That last division system we had just went on for too long.

[Voodoo]

What is this talk of removing rating in a thread about the competitive scene dying?

I didn't wrote "remove".

[Cuddles]

Fine "hide rating".

I suggest the opposite, make rating more prominent. Reward certain ratings with avatars.

[H-master]

Hi, Everyone.

Sorry for the necro....


I wanna give my opinion on this thread....

I want to start off by addressing the issues at hand
In 2019, this isnt a rant. This is my opinion and the way i see things in faf.

- Why is faf dying? -

1) First, Maps
2) Playerbase,
3) Rating
4) New Players

Now, in conclusion. Thats why i believe faf is dying... im not gonna talk about how we fix it as many of ways have already been stated...

I think this thread is about the comptetive scene dying, but not about FAF in general. I really don't think that is the case. The playerbase actually seems to grow from what I can tell.

Your first point is one of my big frustrations as well. The mapvault is full with great maps, I wouldn't be surprised if there are around 400 quality maps in it. The sad thing is indeed, that a lot of people prefer the sim city maps who not only play boring, but who often happen to miss textures and polishing as well.

It's not that I care how people enjoy their entertainment, but the popularity of these maps do have some consequences for people who DO like normal maps. It is so much harder to fill a non-turtle map.
FAF would be so great if these games would fill fast as well.
That being said, this problem has been there since the launch of the game (fields of isis), and at the moment it's easier to fill games than ever before in my experience.

I also fully agree with your point that this affects new players as well. When they are new to FAF they think FAF is about Gap of Dual Rohan etc. when this game is not. The game is much much better than that. I hope they realize in time.

I agree, what motivation does a map maker have to make more maps, when 90% of games is dual gap anyway?

Tl;dr: Players need to get some balls and dare to play different maps.

[biass]

- Why is faf dying? -

1) First, Maps, lets not rant about Wonder. Lets throw down the facts to why these maps are bad for FAF and the playerbase. Well, Maps like Wonder are simplified. In the terms of complete and total simplified gameplay of faf, where you dont have to worry about multiple sides and a more challenging game. A lot of players would rather play simcity. Maps like Wonder feed this playerbase. Thats wants zero challenge and are completely comfortable with playing a simplified game, where they can simcity to sunrise to sundown. Now, The problem i have with is this degrades the skillbase of faf and for the last 5 years and even longer, the skillbase of faf has gone down rapidly fast. People like Morax, Ozonex, SilentWarrior, Unorthodoxbox, and etc. Spend Days, Weeks, and even months on maps, but lets be honest they dont get recoginzed because The 300 versions of Wonder are blocking it. People play Wonder every single day and want 0 change. Maps like Badlands, Setons, Canis, Twin Rivers and etc. They are examples of good maps. That challenge the player and are both good balance wise and looks. I am gonna admit that these maps are overplayed....

Spoiler: show

I get insulted on FAF multiple times a day, but implying misterk gets a mention as a mapper and i don't, cuts me real deep.

If you actually think Wonder, Twin rivers, or anything along your line of reasoning are any different to gap, you're likely delusional.

But, to the point, I would say that Dual Gap is popular because real attempts to create content for audiences that are not "competitive" are mostly half-baked. So, for an easy, casual game, there isn't much there to fill the niche. If people legitimately made content for said niche, and promoted it to them, Gap wouldn't be so widespread.

That won't happen, because doing that is a large effort, and the only minor incentive to making maps is to get them into ladder (and eventually, team matchmaker)
That's why you see more 1v1 maps than you do team-game maps. At least of my stupidly high standards.

Players need to get some balls and dare to play different maps.

Players can do what they please, as long as they continue to utilise the project and potentially convert into being contributors, it's up to the contributors to give them a reason to play something other than dual gap, and I don't personally see that happening either, that's why you see these posts about FAF dying every month. There are plenty of reasons to not be here and we are hoping on pure luck that people will convert to contribution anyway.

[H-master]

Players can do what they please, as long as they continue to utilise the project and potentially convert into being contributors, it's up to the contributors to give them a reason to play something other than dual gap, and I don't personally see that happening either, that's why you see these posts about FAF dying every month. There are plenty of reasons to not be here and we are hoping on pure luck that people will convert to contribution anyway.

Yes of course they can do what they please, I even said that in my post. What I mean is that it would be much more fun for everyone, if people would try different maps.

So your suggestion against the dominance of dual/gap is more maps like dual gap? The problem for me isn't this particular map, but the popularity of these niche maps.

[Azraeel]

I'm sorry about saying "Faf is dying," I didn't mean FAF Is dying... My Apologies.

As for a lot of your responses, I have to say thank you for even noticing <3

I'm not here to just bash on developers, or anyone in-general.

About rating, I think it needs to be improved tbh. We don't need to remove or hide. We need to improve it.