New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

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New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby SilentWarrior » 28 Jun 2017, 03:16

While going through the forum Discussions :geek: , I found this quote and thought I'd share it;

New player: "Why I lost?"'
You stalled economy, you didn't have AA, You didn't reclaim, You forgot tactical defense, You didn't scout, you didn't expand, you forgot energy storage, you didn't get air, you lost air, you forgot about navy, you gave enemy too much mass, you didn't spam, you didn't tech up fast enough, you didn't have point defense, you didn't use walls correctly, you forgot nuke defense, you left com exposed, etc, etc, or etc...

A new player have to cover and remember a lot. I've been playing 7+ years and I still forget important things like scouting. Knowledge is power, or should I say intelligence. It's a good way to prepare a counter, and strategize an attack...


By Nepty
Re: Why did you stop playing FAF regularly? 11 Jan 2017, 22:28


I've looked at a lot of advise on how to get better at this game, but this quote absolutely Nailed it!

Thanks Nepty.

Anyone reading this, if you have two pence on the subject, or have read a quote somewhere, that you think would be handy for the newer players, please leave it here;

Thanks to all the faf community!

FtXCommando wrote:Meta = The general gameplan.

Basically all maps have several optimal pathways to use. These optimal paths lead to specialized build orders for the maps. Some maps have extra tree reclaim near the start location so you can get away with less power generators than a generalized build order. Some have mass in the center that you have to get immediately. Some have mass in the center that can be gained at a later point in time due to the amount of reclaim in other areas/it not being worth the opportunity cost.

If one player knows the "meta" of a map while another player does not, it's going to be a totally one-sided game. When there is a large map pool, the players that have played for a long time will have a significant advantage because there aren't that many good new maps that are created and so it is more likely than not that they will play a map that they are familiar with while new players will not. With a small pool, it is much easier for everyone to reach a higher level of understanding with maps as there are only 6 maps or so for new players to learn.


Thanks FtXCommando!
Last edited by SilentWarrior on 09 Jul 2017, 21:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby Nepty » 28 Jun 2017, 04:02

You're welcome. This game is pretty deep. That's what makes it special. Remembering to do everything you should helps a lot. Forgetting just one simple step can cost a player a nearly won game.

Sapphire: Darn you got me cornered, but I have 3 words for you. These 3 words will change everything...

*STRATEGIC LAUNCH DETECTED*

Opponent: LOL. I knew I forgot something... GG


Scout scout scout scout. Intelligence helps us prepare a counter if possible.
Original join Date: August 21, 2012 | Original FAF account: Cybrankiller | Highest skill rating: 1780
Favorite map: Vale of Isis | Favorite faction: UEF | Favorite opponent: Anaryl | Favorite pro: Chosen
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby Viba » 28 Jun 2017, 20:22

Or just don't be the player who has to counter things, be the player causing your opponent to counter your shenanigans :)
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby tatsu » 30 Jun 2017, 18:31

there's a mod that reminds you to do all those things it's called notification
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby SilentWarrior » 30 Jun 2017, 20:23

Is there a link for it here somewhere?

Thanks for commenting.
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby PhilipJFry » 30 Jun 2017, 20:30

cats>dogs
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby prodromos » 04 Jul 2017, 20:37

If you have to remember to scout, you lost already. But this is ok, because you are new, you will learn. You must make a conscious effort, though, to do all these things, in the beginning. As time passes they become automated.

I still encounter players , that ask me to scout, while I am their only mate that actually scouts. They think they can share it as one of the duties, even though it should be done automatically by anyone in game. They manage to become both ineffective and obnoxious this way.

Also you have to react, to what you are presented with in battle. For example, if you decided you will go land but face air, you should have the mindset , to adapt. Not rage quit because someone spoiled the "great strategy" you had in mind. And you have to be map aware and react quickly, including using hotkeys. All these things take some time to get used to, provided you have been making a conscious effort all this time. Plus, not all people, have the same neurokinetic capacity. You will have to accept it if you are limited and adapt, because chances are, no matter your capacity, if you try, you will always be able to play competitively.
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby Ars Nova » 07 Jul 2017, 02:20

The quote is kinda empty on calories. It doesn't mean anything. Anyone could say it. "You lost because your commander exploded. Stop doing that."

But I've watched a lot of new guys get into the game, and there's a bit of an order to the learning process.

Your Build Order
The first of it is always power stalling, and I'm surprised sometimes how long some players will maintain a build order that power stalls. I think they get used to stalling and take it as a natural part of the game. A common healthy convention is to build a factory first, then your power structures, and if you go land you build two power and if you go air you build three power. This works on maps where power reclaim is available, but a more safe, consistent way to open is factory, then three power generators if land and four generators if air. Make those your first four to five structures. The engies leaving the factory will build the mass extractors.

Mass is easier to get than power, but a power stall hurts you in a lot of ways. It reduces mass income, slows general production, shuts down intel - when you power stall in the early game, it can deceptively put you behind by minutes in the long run, and the impact won't be directly visible to you. Your engies aren't getting out as fast, nor is anything else. The enemy will have troops while you're still trying to build infrastructure. As you practice, you can experiment with the build order and go more lean because you can predict where a power stall will hit, but starting off, always go safe and always invest in having consistent power income. Build a little extra power starting off, and then set your earliest engies to build a power grid.

Reclaim
Next - reclaim. Always dispatch engineers to reclaim mass with your starting build order. Mass extractors are the backbone of your income, and reclaim is your meat, or maybe your vitamins. It depends on the map, but a player who actively reclaims mass will have more troops, and getting reclaim early means a faster game. For simplicity to minimize headache, it can be useful to build one factory and set it to produce a constant stream of engineers. Set up a patrol path from the factory to somewhere on the other side of the map, and for the most part you'll be able to forget about it. Aside from collecting reclaim with your brain off, you'll always have spare engies running around somewhere, which is handy and important. As you get better at the game you'll find more efficient ways to manage reclaim, but for starting off this is a no-fuss way to do things and it'll let you focus on the harder stuff.

Intel
The next issue is intel. A radar doesn't have to go up immediately, but soon is good. The easiest way to prevent a Cybran run-by is to see it coming on your map ahead of time. Additionally, you'll want to include land scouts with your normal build order. It's useful for all factions and mandatory for Aeon, who rely on superior range and micro to keep ahead. Other factions give a leg up to their artillery by seeing enemies from further out, and having the blips show up ahead of time gives you just a little more opportunity to maneuver. Radar is passive and land scouts travel with your army, but you'll want air scouts too so that you can see where your opponent is and understand what they're doing economically. If you fly a scout to their base and see an early T2 factory, that's your signal to attack, because the early tech investment will have slowed him down. Passivity is death, and consistent intel is how you avoid passivity in a clever fashion. Unfortuantely nothing can teach you what to do with intel short of experience, but do make a habit of always looking at the enemy base. If you ever find yourself with a stockpile of multiple scout planes, it usually doesn't mean you're building too many scouts, it means you're not scouting actively enough.

Stationary Defenses
To some extent I see players trying to rely on point defenses where they shouldn't. While useful at a choke, it's important to think of them as fallback structures. If you find yourself slightly overwhelmed, you can retreat to a PD and slow down the enemy. The PD will force them to bring artillery to the front, and when they do so you can use your proper tanks to attack the artillery. PDs are not a passive defense, they are an active stationary defense. They can do nothing by sitting alone, but with support they can be difficult to get past. When you're forced to abandon a PD, it will be destroyed, usually at minimal cost to the enemy.

Until T2, AA defenses are mainly to prevent your opponent from flying his interceptors into your base. Mobile AA and stationary AA don't have too much oomph, and they won't stop bombers unless they're arranged ahead of the bomber's target. Stopping bombers is what map awareness and interceptors are for. If your opponent is leaning more heavily into air than you are, it's to be expected that your opponent will also have more interceptors. Without ground-based AA, that means the enemy can fly directly into your base, shoot your air force, then bomb your infrastructure with impunity. Stationary AA discourages that. At T2, flak and shields can shut down most air completely, then at T3 it becomes a problem again as players need to invest heavily into T3 fighters.

Transitioning to T2
Transitioning into T2 can be tricky. A common behavior now is to build a high quantity of factories, since the gap between T2 and T1 isn't so large that quantity can't trump quality right away. As you upgrade your economy, the factories will produce units more rapidly, and this presents a safe buffer to smoothly move in to T2. It is possible to operate on fewer factories, but then you need to tech earlier and more rapidly, assisting with engies, and the transition is a vulnerable time since upgrading one factory removes a meaningful fraction of your production and the rush has a higher flow cost. Factory spam is the safer option, and a good idea for newer players. Factory spam also ensures that high reclaim quantities will be put to use, so if you find yourself sucking up a lot of mass at once none of it is wasted.

TMDs and Reclaiming Power
Finally, once you reach T2, built Tactical Missile Defenses. Players often insist that you should do this as your first action, and it's a fine habit to develop, but you may find through scouting that you've reached T2 earlier than your opponent. If you're certain the enemy can't start building tactical missile defenses, you can build T2 power first - but take the scouting seriously because if you're wrong you can pay. The advantage to going power first is that you can reclaim your T1 power generators after the T2 generator is build. The reclaim makes building your next projects faster. It's nice. If you feel like your scouting and map awareness is inefficient, then do start with TMDs. When in doubt, always build TMDs first.

On that note, if you build a Tactical Missile Launcher and see the enemy has built TMDs, don't forget you can reclaim your building. If you feel it's of no use, it's better to have the mass for other things. As for stationary artillery, it's a niche option and something most people recommend against. The high expense, low firing rate, and frailty means it's liable not to do much, but it does have solid reach and once it's established it can keep firing. Stationary artillery can be acceptable for making pressure - but expect the enemy to respond to that pressure by moving to the artillery so they can destroy it. If you sacrifice a suitable military in order to maker artillery, you'll almost always provoke a counter-attack and you'll lose.

Transitioning to T3
Transitioning to T3 is one of the more fluid parts of the game. Many players like to rush it because T3 units pack so much power, but the exact timing gets fuzzy depending on a lot of factors, so learning to reach T3 takes experience. Sometimes you should focus on eco first, other times on reinforcing a forward position, building fire bases, exploiting bombing targets before shields cover them. There's no hard and fast rule in a general game.

The Map and Game
Finally, there are some different trends depending on the map and the quantity of players. You'll find players who exclusively play on Setons to have a slightly different perspective than people who mostly ladder 1v1. This is because team strategies and tactics do change the flow of the game. If you play on those maps, they all have very specific metas. That doesn't make them bad to play on, since occupying a role gives a person less to think about at once and can help you get intimate with specific aspects of the game. Air players often learn to nail down eco management from playing their position, for example. It can also teach bad habits, but if you're having fun then you're having fun.
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby FtXCommando » 07 Jul 2017, 02:53

No idea how you got the idea that mass is easier to get than power considering every faction can have near infinite energy and only one can have near infinite mass.

You're probably the first person to state that t1 maa has no "oomph" to kill t1 bombers. 2 of them kill the bomber before it drops 2 bombs.

You're building way too much power if you're reclaiming your t1 pgens after your first t2 pgen. Or more likely, you aren't taking advantage of the extra power for tools like com upgrades or additional air production.

Everything in this game has a very specific meta. The only exception would be new maps, I guess. Both ladder and team games are going to more often than not be decided by who knows the meta for a map and has a bo rather than which player can apply the knowledge the best. Hence the reason the ladder pool was decreased and why some play a small selection of team game maps. The quality of the games rise when meta is well known by all players (in theory).
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Re: New player: "Why I lost?" & How not to...

Postby Ars Nova » 07 Jul 2017, 03:06

FtXCommando wrote:No idea how you got the idea that mass is easier to get than power considering every faction can have near infinite energy and only one can have near infinite mass.

Reclaim. Players learning their basics aren't thinking about building an infinite number of T3 pgens. That's stupid. If you run out of power, everything crashes and you have to stop something or rush build new pgens. If you run out of mass, then just reclaim more mass. Mass is easier to get than power. You should always be low on mass.

FtXCommando wrote:You're probably the first person to state that t1 maa has no "oomph" to kill t1 bombers. 2 of them kill the bomber before it drops 2 bombs.

If your enemy is flying a single bomber over your MAA, that's fine. If you're trying to stop enemy bomber squads from blowing up your mass and power structures, then ground-based AA will only prevent it if they catch the bomber squadron mid-way there. Come on, now.

FtXCommando wrote:You're building way too much power if you're reclaiming your t1 pgens after your first t2 pgen. Or more likely, you aren't taking advantage of the extra power for tools like com upgrades or additional air production.

You know that building a T2 pgen produces extra power, right? Like more power than you had before. Again, assuming we're addressing new players, they're probably not on the razor's edge for power production because that's liable to make them power stall. The extra mass is helpful if you need it. You could also divert the power to air or to ACU upgrades, sure. That would be a constructive thing to point out if you were trying to be constructive. At any rate, it's important to remember to reclaim T1 pgens whenever your power income is sufficient and not explicitly needed for something else.
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