The Ranking of the EQ mod

[BRNKoINSANITY]

I just feel like this needs to go in writing somewhere since nothing in #aeolus is permanent.

Equilibrium SHOULD NOT be ranked.

"Equilibrium doesn't change the game that much, people don't even notice" - That was one game, and people I have talked to CAN tell the difference. This turns into "he said she said." In the end it doesn't matter, because ranking should be for the official game balance, not for mods.

"Equilibrium should be ranked because people don't play it because the games don't count" - If your mod is not compelling enough to bring people in to play it on its own merit, why on earth would it being ranked change that? Also, this is not a valid reason for why it SHOULD be ranked, it is still a mod, not the official game patch.

"People quit EQ games because since rank doesn't count they don't care" - Cry me a river, people quit setons and gap games all the time, and those ARE ranked. It would make no difference.

"Equilibrium should be ranked because map bias has more effect on rank than this mod does" - What does that have to do with anything? Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, are you going to argue that aeon should have it's own rank in 1v1 because the play style is so different? Just because something else is happening is not an argument for your own cause, this is a justification.

"EQ should be ranked because it is perfectly balanced and a lot of time and effort has been put into it" - Let's return to the mod not being played. If it doesn't have enough change for people to notice it is different as say, and if the mod is not compelling enough on it's own merit for people to willingly play it, then why does it deserve special treatment? Spending time on something does not infer value. People spent more time on blackops than on EQ by a very long country mile. Does blackops belong in global rating? Same goes for many mods, some balanced, some not. Everyone spent time on their mods. Ranking is for the official patch, not mods.

These are most of the arguments I have heard so far, I am sure more will be posted below.

My own opinion is that based on principle, and on good game/community design, you only count the current, official patch towards rank. Anything else introduces a grey area and dilutes the value of your ranking system.

It is also my opinion that, whether or not this is actually the case, this can be seen as favoratism and promotion of a private endeavor. EQ was created, and no one played it. It gets added to featured mod list. EQ still doesn't get played, it gets ranked. What is the next step here? I checked the replay vault, and counted 3 real games in the last 3 days played on the mod. Why does it deserve this special treatment? (real games defined as games that would normally be ranked, eg more than one player and not with other extensive modifications. There were about 15 games that were vs AI, most by the same 2 people. In short, no one is playing this thing)

TL;DR - EQ is ranked and it REALLY REALLY shouldn't be
/endrant

[misthafalls]

WIth this post I completely agree. Ranking is and should be based upon standard game mechanics and EQ is not.

If you wanted to have ranking then I more propose the usage of separate ranking schemes for featured mods and leave the global for what it is standard games.

[DarkPhoenix332]

Completely agree.

[Mr_row]

Eq should not be ranked as it has been a mod at the end a you do see any of the other featured mod getting this type of suport or even thinking about it. eq Should not be ranked only the main version of faf should be.

[Gorton]

It is also my opinion that, whether or not this is actually the case, this can be seen as favouratism and promotion of a private endeavour. EQ was created, and no one played it. It gets added to featured mod list. EQ still doesn't get played, it gets ranked. What is the next step here? I checked the replay vault, and counted 3 real games in the last 3 days played on the mod. Why does it deserve this special treatment? (real games defined as games that would not normally be ranked, eg more than one player and not with other extensive modifications. There were about 15 games that were vs AI, most by the same 2 people. In short, no one is playing this thing)

This.

It's also about where you draw a line on rating* a mod. Giving it special privilege can become a slippery slope - if it's similar enough that it's worth rating, then will you also rate other mods? If diamond was fixed right now, would it get rated?

I'd also like to mention that if eq (or indeed any other mod) became sufficiently played, we may get the same problem other rts games (e.g ta spring) have had where they've had significant separation of community. I also feel like this would lead to problems when people are asking for help and advice, as it could happen that people will give the wrong advice or information as the unit stats are different.

[speed2]

In the end it doesn't matter, because ranking should be for the official game balance, not for mods.

Than it's all good since ranking uses only official balance.

Would be good if people already learn what rating is and what it is for.

[BRNKoINSANITY]

Inform us then?

[speed2]

Rating is a tool used for balancing games. In best case it would be not displayed like it is right now, since people are hunting every "point", going for the high score, while rating is niether of that.

As it was said in the dev call, EQ is very similar to the base game. It does not add any new units or new game mechanics into the game. You dont need to learn new thing to be good at EQ games. You were comparing it to black ops (nomads and what not) Black ops add tons of new units and commander upgrades, it's far from balanced. Nomads is a whole new faction, but it's not as crazy as black ops or similar mods. So once it's all sorted it might become rated as well.

So with the way the rating works, it's not gonna make anyones rating inaccurate, since EQ has same units and game mechanics as the base game, just "balanced" (-as they like to call it).

Spoiler: show

[JEW]PhilipJFry: the consteallation of the stars has more impact on the rating of the average faf user than EQ being ranked or not

[Ze Dogfather]

I must say that I do agree with certain points with BRNK, especially

...promotion of a private endeavor.

I have no quarrel with the mod itself, and wouldn't feel it appropriate to disrespect the work. However this is incredibly ambiguous of a decision, and a bold move that appears transparent throughout; this is blatant advertising. Of course I shouldn't label it as such, but it would also be disrespectful if I weren't honest with what we see in front of us. I do not know the details pertaining to games or support being sent behind this mod, though I do not recall being such an outstanding appeal to action to have either the EQ mod being a main featured mod, or for it to become ranked. Then again this was decided for us, wasn't it?

Sort of an irrelevant mention, but I must say that I saw this coming, before EQ became a main featured mod. I brought my own concerns about the balance and the EQ mod to Jagged's attention, and I did express the problem of the EQ mod being integrated as the intended replacement to the primary balance.

[BRNKoINSANITY]

Than it's all good since ranking uses only official balance.

Would be good if people already learn what rating is and what it is for.

Rating is a tool used for balancing games. In best case it would be not displayed like it is right now, since people are hunting every "point", going for the high score, while rating is niether of that..

Rating/Ranking perhaps Gorton is right about semantics. I am referring to the rating system in FAF, everyone knows I am talking about the rating system in FAF, and EQ does indeed factor into the rating in FAF now. Your statement is pointing out a technicality, and saying that only the official FAF balance affects it is now blatently incorrect.

Sort of an irrelevant mention, but I must say that I saw this coming, before EQ became a main featured mod. I brought my own concerns about the balance and the EQ mod to Jagged's attention, and I did express the problem of the EQ mod being integrated as the intended replacement to the primary balance.

People didn't stand up and make a fuss before now when it was made a featured mod (I did, but didn't post to forum so it didn't matter), and now it is ranked, so I am making a fuss (and putting it in the forum) before it is seriously considered as a replacement to our balance. Because it isn't, and it shouldn't be. We shouldn't encourage this.

This is not my entire reason for not wanting the ranking of this mod to happen, but it does play a small part. Especially since fixes and balance changes are already being pulled into the main branch from EQ. While not all of those changes are bad, when you start merging a lot of things from an alternate balance, things start getting sketchy super fast. The stuff that has been pulled to my knowledge has included bug fixes, so we can all appreciate the technical work being done on EQ, but to start considering the mod as a legitimate source of balance information and to count it as part of the rating system is a HUGE mistake.