Area Commands

[biass]

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skep ... l#laziness

[EDIT]: about the side post, i consider that an expoit

[Heaven]

yet another one who hasn't read the thread and jumped to conlucions

the arguments in favor of area reclaim are known. everything that's been said here has been said elsewhere months or years ago, mostly by people who have never even used manual reclaim on a regular basis. yet i have to dispel them again to prove i'm worthy of telling the truth?

being good at clicking at rocks is not what's required to use manual reclaim. everybody can click on rocks. being so good at the game that you even have time to click on rocks despite all the stuff that's going on everywhere on the map is what's required to use manual reclaim. and that's something not everybody can do. this is why manual reclaim requires skill, and it's an essential part of the game.

ask yourself how much more we have to automate this game until you might as well let an AI do the playing. i'll answer for you: not a lot more, we are almost there. once the game is fully automated and even people with 15 APM can beat anyone, just don't forget it's your robot that's doing the playing, not you in person.

skill floor and skill ceiling are connected. getting exceptionally good involves diseconomies, meaning each additional unit of skill you build up will be more and more expensive than the previous one. if you add a high "unconditional basic income" of skill, exceeding the average skill level significantly will barely be possible, no matter how hard you try. the statement of some youtube celebrity won't change that.

i'm impressed how people are attracted by the skill requirement of this game, play 1000s of games, arrive at their skill plateau, get frustrated, and then try to reduce the skill requirement of the game instead of improving their gameplay. have you forgotten why you came here?

[tatsu]

ask yourself how much more we have to automate this game until you might as well let an AI do the playing.

the crusaders of the ladder never really take this argument to it's fruition.

you should though. what does happen then ? let an AI play the game ? Strange as it may sound I'd actually love to see that because if you pull that off that'll mean we'll have created true A.I., triggered the singularity. And I'd love to be there honestly, because by now this is a better shot at humanity's survival than leaving it in humanity's own hands.

I'd like to be there. but we won't. point is we have an AI and we had the world's best RTS AI work on making a better AI yet those AI even with cheats cannot beat us.

this is exactly the sort of game that AIs will beat humans at last.

again you're really presenting arguments that have been torn down by and large in this thread with arguments as simple as: "try the mod"

no it does not mean the end for "muh superiority' it does not entail a big change in the end.

all you're being right now is a "gramp's don't changem' "

[tatsu]

this guy btw :

[KeyBlue]

IceDreamer's post doesn't make much sense to me:
If you have the APM to do the manual reclaim and I don't, you will have more stuff to kill me with. I

he's basically saying the APM can be used in much more dangerous "rating gap digging" ways than that.

If it could be then people wouldn't do manual reclaim, they'd do those 'more dangerous' things. Manual reclaim is only really used in the first couple minutes anyway, after that it's very rare because it's not actually an efficient use of apm to click on a hundred rocks at 7 mins. Area reclaim will just make everyone get more reclaim easier in mid game and people will still click on rocks and trees at the start of the game. No one is making lots of manual reclaim orders while allowing an army to fight a battle or their eco balance to go astray, and if they are then they suck.

Doesn't this completely counter Heaven's point about manual reclaim?
(i assume Jagged knows better, since he is the better player. Petric seems to agree, so thats 2 of the very best players)

Manual reclaim is rarely used by the skilled after the initial bo is done. So is it really an essential part of the game?
Or is Heaven talking about the players that outclass them? (who are they?)

And i'm pretty sure that Area Command doesn't make any interesting decisions. Its a menial labour reduction feature.

[Heaven]

Doesn't this completely counter Heaven's point about manual reclaim?

No, all it says is that even the best players of this game can still improve.

[tatsu]

[PhilipJFry]

@tatsu Please stop with the stupid meme posting its not helping anyone.
@KeyBlue Having higher global/ladder rating doesn't mean you're right by default.
@Heaven I just used some youtube celebrity to make a point about skill ceiling and skill floor.

@everyone It'd be really cool if you'd test out the mod for yourself before deciding that its a) gonna be the one thing that we definitely need or b) gonna ruin the game.

[tatsu]

@tatsu Please stop with the stupid meme posting its not helping anyone.

aw

ok. guess I won't post this here then : http://imgur.com/a/Qhuhe

[JaggedAppliance]

If it could be then people wouldn't do manual reclaim, they'd do those 'more dangerous' things. Manual reclaim is only really used in the first couple minutes anyway, after that it's very rare because it's not actually an efficient use of apm to click on a hundred rocks at 7 mins. Area reclaim will just make everyone get more reclaim easier in mid game and people will still click on rocks and trees at the start of the game. No one is making lots of manual reclaim orders while allowing an army to fight a battle or their eco balance to go astray, and if they are then they suck.

Doesn't this completely counter Heaven's point about manual reclaim?
(i assume Jagged knows better, since he is the better player. Petric seems to agree, so thats 2 of the very best players)

Manual reclaim is rarely used by the skilled after the initial bo is done. So is it really an essential part of the game?
Or is Heaven talking about the players that outclass them? (who are they?)

And i'm pretty sure that Area Command doesn't make any interesting decisions. Its a menial labour reduction feature.

My point is it's never gonna be efficient to manually reclaim small rocks after 4/5 mins into the game which is what this command will be used for a lot. I do still manually reclaim occasionally but only on wrecks like maybe t2 and definitely t3 wrecks. In teamgames you can also manually reclaim more because f*** all happens

What menial labour does this remove? It will be used instead of attack move and patrol move so I don't see where the menial labour comes in. What it actually does from my understanding is improve the efficiency of reclaiming.

And to Heaven, more manual reclaim is not where improvements will be found in gameplay.