Area Commands

[biass]

ok, fine tatsu.
You spurred me into giving you a serious rebut, even though i predicted you to attempt to claim a moral highground by claiming i was either some nerd on the internet or some kid, you managed both, maybe because its 3am, w/e

1st up, adding "Is wrong" to the end of your points makes them appear less valid, also makes then easy to disrail, because i could have just said "why are they wrong" and then reduced you to a heap of dirt, bad move

lets go through the points one by one:
"thinking APM is a measure of skill in this game is wrong"
This is subjective, but the people with low apm will cry that it isn't and the people with high apm will cry that it is, i fall in the middle somewhere, and i also think it is, being some taktikal jinyas is worthless if you cannot execute your plans fast enough for them to still be relevant.
The player with 70 apm in my eyes will always rek the guy with 10, if the "brain" behind the player were the same (needing a brain to play fa is debatable)

A real life example? a lot of people i train hold replays where they have some smart idea to prehaps drop engies or etc and then dont have the apm to both check up on the transport, assign orders to the engineers, and then keep up with the opponent inbetween that
Lacking apm also ends up in slower times to get units to places, you have units (mongoose, aurora) that need to be microed else they get picked off with no effort required,
is my point making sense now?

"thinking focused rock clicking is what sets the pros from the joes apart is wrong"
If you actually equate "focused rock clicking" as the term for manual reclaim then maybe it has not clicked to you how much of a difference it can make for you in your opening buildorder (open palms comes to mind)
At this point i would have pasted a !ladderrating tatsu to downplay you, but you would just turn to salty screeching, so no point (no point typing this imo, but)
in what i deleted before i typed the "this has to be a troll" post, i made a mention of how i believed that one of the most defining parts of going through 1k to 1.5k ladder (global applies, but maybe less, depends on the map) is being able to both A: find the best shiny bits on the map and B: spend them. You'll never compete with someone that knows to zap up the big boulders in say regor (the one at back comes to mind) and knows what best to spend it on early, if you just hold a vendetta against "rock clicking" and forget about it
Honestly i debated replying to this, as you give manual reclaim an ad absurdum name in order to make your stance look like the highground, kinda sucks

finally "finding a difference between that and other quality of life elements of FA is questionable at best" (by which i assume you mean ecomanager)
ecomanager automatically pauses production of your whatever if you are about to crash eco, it's not to be confused with fab manager, it stops anything
The main difference between area commands and ecomanager is that eco manager is considered a burden to new players who may not be able to keep afloat in eco (maybe unable to reclaim mass, prehaps?) whereas area commands takes away effort for no real "catch" per se

Im not going to reply to your poor oneliners, they're 2.5/10 at best, maybe i have high standards, dk.

Im also going to add in 2 points for you to come to me and offer some talks, despite the obvious outcome of exotic someone else butting in with points of their own, and you just saying "what he said"
[EDIT]: made it red for bystander visiblity because people will skim the 1st paragraph and then not pay attention

number A: Reclaim can be sorted into two categories, a slower, less time consuming attackmove, and a more delicate but more rewarding manual reclaim, these two elements provide more decision making, as spending time to queue some reclaim commands to pump your economy may end up in disaster where your all important frontline aurora get caught out by some arty shells or etc
With this new ui command, the choice is gone, because there is one definite standard, you get to queue the more delicate commands in the speed of a regular attackmove, no branching paths or consequences

number B: Explain why you are unsatisfied with attackmove in general, as a builtin "area reclaim" command

There you go, enjoy "what i have to say", i hate spending this much time on a serious reponse that matters so little
i expect you to retort with some "i dont really care", this that or the other response, i want you to prove me wrong.

xoxo

[PhilipJFry]

Since we have now established that both sides of the arguement are literally hitler i'd like to ask everyone to just take a look at what the mod does and how well it does it.
For example the autoreclaim feature makes no difference between groups of trees and rocks. So i wouldn't go all the way with saying that its straight up better than manual reclaim.

[tatsu]

A real life example? a lot of people i train hold replays where they have some smart idea to prehaps drop engies or etc and then dont have the apm to both check up on the transport, assign orders to the engineers, and then keep up with the opponent inbetween that
Lacking apm also ends up in slower times to get units to places, you have units (mongoose, aurora) that need to be microed else they get picked off with no effort required,
is my point making sense now?

no it's a strawman I can do those things yet can't do the reclaim micro. but nothing about it spells "strategy"

[biass]

i expect you to retort with some "i dont really care", this that or the other response, i want you to prove me wrong.

no it's a strawman I can do those things yet can't do the reclaim micro. but nothing about it spells "strategy"

gg

Since we have now established that both sides of the arguement are literally hitler i'd like to ask everyone to just take a look at what the mod does and how well it does it.
For example the autoreclaim feature makes no difference between groups of trees and rocks. So i wouldn't go all the way with saying that its straight up better than manual reclaim.

you ruin the moral conquest fun
tho i can see again in places like palms where there is only rocks, clicking a move order to the pile, dragging the area command, and then continuing the orders, fun.

[PhilipJFry]

you ruin the moral conquest fun
tho i can see again in places like palms where there is only rocks, clicking a move order to the pile, dragging the area command, and then continuing the orders, fun.

But isn't an attack move after a regular move gonna suck up all the rocks fairly reliably too?
Don't get me wrong i do think that the area command is a better tool than what we have right now but i think the difference is not quite as big as some people may think it is.

[biass]

because you cannot queue an attackmove and then other stuff after it, whereas the other commands will
(with engineers)

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Since we have now established that both sides of the arguement are literally hitler i'd like to ask everyone to just take a look at what the mod does and how well it does it.
For example the autoreclaim feature makes no difference between groups of trees and rocks. So i wouldn't go all the way with saying that its straight up better than manual reclaim.

You stole my argument

I think the impact of this change is blown out of proportion. There are many cases where manual reclaim is still better and factory attack move is still superior for abusing the range. There are also cases where this allows for quick, convenient reclaim ofc. But those cases won't make me a better player. So this is mostly a convenience feature for noobs like me.

The attack-move seems a little erratic at times, sometimes stopping the reclaim for no apparent reason.

So I fiddled around with this, reclaiming works now too again

Would it be possible to turn this into a UI mod?

[PhilipJFry]

I don't think that thats a good idea. We already have some ui mods that are arguably not only ui improvements.
If you want to use this mod i suggest you use it as a sim mod.

[Viba]

I played around with it, you can adjust the thresholds for what to reclaim. Could probably add 2-3 different area reclaim modes, one for trees, one for big mass chunks, one for all etc.

To me it seemed manual reclaim would still have its place, in some cases area reclaim would be quite handy. But to reclaim tree groups without breaking them, use manual or attack move. To reclaim wrecks in the most efficient manner, use manual reclaim. The area assist, repair, attack commands are also nice, basically enhanced split attack (and other commands).

I think many of you are blowing this out of proportion. Try it out for yourself before jumping on the keyboard warrior campaign.

[Exotic_Retard]

But to reclaim tree groups without breaking them, use manual or attack move.

theres a nice set of commits thats gonna hit release at some point which remove this too - engineers will no longer run over trees, but units will.

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/1527

incidentally it also removes micro.
also it changes a lot more than just that

if you need to have something to cry about then this is a larger change and is already coded in, just needs releasing.
this area reclaim thing is still a mod for now xD

this patch is apparently due on the 26th december, so yeah.