The Gap Map Dilemma

[Evan_]

I used to like playing gap maps alot. When I first discovered Supcom and FAF (around march of this year) they were the only maps I wouldn't fail horribly at. In fact I would actually say that I, like many other noobs, got very good at one specific playstyle on one specific map. On duel gap I knew exactly when to go t2, I knew all the signs of an incoming air snipe, I knew how to stop a Com push. I had my build orders, my unit compositions, and the deadliest strategies a 200 rank player could conceive. And if someone dared try to stop my turtling, I'd use t1 arty to kill their mml, or take down an approaching monleylord with a well timed tact missile battery (and yes, I know this wouldn't work on any other map). Even if it got too much for me, my team would cover me until I got out, because they had also become very good at this one specific playstyle on this one specific map.

My point is, while we all know that the infamous 3 (gap, duel gap, and thermo) are bad maps with slow gameplay that punishes attackers (see http://forums.faforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=12368), they were also maps where me and many others have lots of fun. It was basically the call of duty of Supcom; you could jump in at any time because lots of people were playing it, and simple yet challenging enough to be engaging. Best of all it gave access to the strongest and flashiest units in the game, because it lasted long enough to have stuff like mass novax spam and paragons for everyone viable.

Duel gap in particular seems to be the most popular because it gives the illusion of an action packed and skill heavy game. There's this big open area to fight over, and it has a few mass extractors and rocks to give an incentive to expand. But like Thermo and Rohan, it has many problems that cause gameplay to deteriorate even before the battle has really begun.

The reason why I stopped playing the 3 is because losing a game on these maps is extremely frustrating. It's so long, and painful to slowly crumble away, that you feel like your 2 hour investment in this game was all for nothing, or that you let your team down. Even when you are in a winning position, slowly chipping away at your opponent while you wait for the back players to finish their Experimentals is boring, because you feel basically useless at the end of the game. And while there's some fun to be had in being one of the last 2 people alive on your team, barricading yourself inside a massive shield complex and taking down incoming units by the hundreds as you desperately stall for as long as possible, it quickly turns sour because virtually every game I've played on these maps turns into a heavy artillery war. On those occasions where nukes and arty are disabled, noone knows what to do, because as annoying as those structures are if you play in mid, they are often the only reasonable way to end a game on these maps.

But what would I rather do? Play a turtle map where I can fight a no consequence battle in the mid and watch my base be destroyed in a pretty light show 2 hours in? Or wait long enough to find a game that is low enough rating for me to join (or wait even longer if I host it myself), only to get frustrated when I powerstall because I'm not used to playing maps without a hydro, die quickly, and disappoint my team by throwing the game 12 minutes in? These days I hardly do either, often just playing by myself against Sorian AIX on the other side of a 20 km map. And while atm of writing there are 2 twin rivers and 2 gap of rohan lobbies, I really don't feel like playing either of them.

I'm typing up this post to try and explain why so many people join the infamous 3, and promote more discussion on how to remedy this. Because I know that I would like to join the more difficult maps like wonder and Syrtis, and I know that all the other -400 to 800 players would as well if we were good enough. Yes, we know that there are other ways to play than pd creep or experimental rush. Yes, we know that the maps are boring in comparison to other options. There already exists a wealth of high quality tutorials, videos, and replays to watch. But no offence to people like Heaven, FafColonel, Brnk, and others who work hard to make their content, but I really can't make the most of all the material they put out because I need to practice in real games to get any better. And even if I do take the time and effort to get better and kick old habits on my own, I'm just 1 player.

My question is, what can we do to promote playing on open maps with lots of diverse and strategic gameplay?

[CookieNoob]

long story short: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=13014
I made ~30 maps that adapt to the number of players, have custom options, offer a diverse gameplay, dont look super shit like dual gap (some versions have trees on the water?!?) and have other cool stuff. Host it and when you are bored and dont want to wait any longer... just start the game. The map will adjust to the number of players there.

Another thing that can be done is hosting tourneys for this rating range or above, but below "pro" level, so that high rated players play together with average players.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13603

[keyser]

i didn't read everything so my answer may not be what you expect.

but I think people don't want to tryhard, they like to have chill game without high apm needed. that's why lot of people play close map, with few raid, where you can eco and use big unit.

to make people play open maps, with diversity in gameplay, you need to create some competitivity, some chalenges...

[angus000]

My recommendation is to play ladder. There, you will learn to play open maps where turtling isn't viable, all the while you confront players of your proximate rating in short-lasting games. That's how one usually gets better in this game. Though I have to admit gap of rohan is a really good map for learning the very basics of the game, like your first monkey or t3 air rush ever.

[partymarty81]

I actually started the other way, for me 1 v 1 was most exciting to watch and play, after about 3 attempts of team games with disconnects, suicides and just being overrun I opted to keep going at 1 v 1. I'll play team games at a later stage when I know a bit more about the later game as if I fu now I'm only letting myself down!

Ladder has been sharp learning for me, been playing that for about a week now. Game does improve quickly though. And stick with those tutorial videos especially the different build orders, they helped me a lot

[Lieutenant Lich]

You see, if only there were more of 0-800 rated gap players that thought like you, EvanGalea... we would have 200-800 open palms/canis ultimate games... and that'd be the FAF Paradise.

[PhilipJFry]

Try using Mumble/Discord/Teamspeak/Skype or whatever you prefer to communicate with other people. Not only are teamgames a lot more fun if you talk to your teammates, it also makes planning and executing cheesy tactics a whole lot easier!

[Evan_]

Thank you guys for the tips. I've been trying to play the ladder and stuff. using Voice chat is actually something I didn't think of. I'll see if I can set that up. And Adaptive maps seems like a cool way to start, maybe if I start regularly hosting it will catch on more quickly.

But I would like this thread to be about motivating all players to break out of their comfort zone, rather than just giving me ideas on ways to improve. Sure, to do that it would be great to figure out where to best teach us noobs, but we also need to know how.

In between OP and now, I remembered we have a tutorial tab, but the links don't seem to work. Do you guys think we should try to bring that back?

[keyser]

there is a bot giving the link to heaven's tutorial every now and then, in aeolus.
but as i said, i'm not sure there is something to do to make people play map that require more skill/apm.

[PhilipJFry]

Imho for the most people its probably more about getting out of their comfort zone and getting used to different ways of playing the game.
The links in the tutorial tab do actually work again in the beta version of the client.
TheSetoner will link to heavens channel when triggered.