shield and nuke

[keyser]

Since when people consider using shield to defend against a nuke as a bug ?
Only thing is that the missile get through the shield, but i ve no idea why shield shouldn t absorb damage done.
#ithilis #speed2

[Ithilis_Quo]

This has been done in far past, because on GPG time was not worth to build SMD. This was cause especialy for seraphin that with well shielded base dont care that much about nuke, nuke only turn shield down.

In script is line that penetrate shield, and dont take that mount in account. This is also true on submarine nuke.

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It is bugged while shield source is not in range of nuke (also outer range), because that penetartion mean that at first it destroy shield source, but while the source is out of range its not destroyed and shield bubble still can cover units under it, because have big area effect. OK maybe its not the bug, but defenitly was not intended

[ZLO_RD]

Bug happens when you use 30+ mobile shields and stack them in one spot and it can defend any nuke except from paragon explosion
Paragon explosion probably can't be stopped by shield since it does 2x 30k damage instead of 60k damage

Having one shiled above ~60k hp sera ACU to save it from nuke is not a bug and not an exploit

[keyser]

Wait i have difficulty to understand.
An acu that survive a nuke sub (being in inner ring) isn't a bug. But an acu that survive a nuke sub (being in inner ring) thanks to mobile and static shield is a bug ?
I don't quite get the difference...
Double nano + T3 + 5 vet surviving nuke sub is right ?
Double nano + T3 + 5 vet + 1 t2 shield surviving a normal nuke isn't right ?
A double shield acu + t3 + 5 vet surviving a nuke sub is right ?
A heavy shielded t1 acu (with t2/t3 static shield, or tons of mobiles shields (t2/t3), or few area shield uef scu) surviving a normal or sub nuke isn't right ?

I'm sorry ithilis, i didn't get your explanation.

Btw if using shield to defend nuke isn't a bug, we should consider making a ui mod telling which part will take how much damage, depending on the position of the landing missile.

[Exotic_Retard]

well its quite simple actually:
how it works currently:
all nukes ignore shields. both explosion and missile. any shields stopping/affecting nukes in any way is a bug.

land nuke does 70k damage
sub nuke does 30k damage

max hp an acu can have is just under 70k so it will never survive land nuke but will survive sub nuke.

now is the question of whether this is acceptable or not.

the reason nukes go through shields is because sera shield has nice 21khp. this means you can stack 4 of them and negate nuke damage.
same for other shields but it will be much harder since you need more and then the shield stacking mechanic comes in and it gets messy.
in gpg it was even worse because that mechanic was not in effect - so shields were op as hell there and you used to see 300 mobile shields cruising everywhere.

essentially - nukes need to go through shields to make SMD worth making. this counts for explosions as well unless you want to be forced to aim exactly at the anti-nuke/target every time or not be guaranteed to kill it. so for consistency reasons (you fire nuke at sth - you expect it to take X damage) this mechanic should stay in. unless you have a better idea of course.

on top of that, last time i checked nuke behavior was a bit buggy regarding shields and was sometimes killing stuff it shouldn't (stuff out of range of outer ring for example)
and sometimes not killing stuff it should (like being stopped by shields in some for example.)

billy nuke is a different thing entirely and is stopped by shields so its not relevant here. (its also useless)

hope this helps

[ZLO_RD]

Wait i have difficulty to understand.
An acu that survive a nuke sub (being in inner ring) isn't a bug. But an acu that survive a nuke sub (being in inner ring) thanks to mobile and static shield is a bug ?
I don't quite get the difference...

no matter how many UEF mobile shields you have, they only have 4000 hp, and they should all get damaged by nuke and damage target under shield with 70 000 - 4 000 damage (Edit: at least how i see it, how it should work)
But there is a bug, when all those mobile shields are stacked in one spot they can defend against any damage that comes in one explosion (para is 2 explosions, and i have no tested t4 nuke tbh) ... just need enought mobile shields, and that is a bug

well its quite simple actually:
how it works currently:
all nukes ignore shields. both explosion and missile. any shields stopping/affecting nukes in any way is a bug.

well obviusly wrong here, because shields do save from some damage if target is under shield and nuke is outside of shield, and i actually thought that was intended... and there is also that bug with stacked shields, and that how it currently works and i don't really have any opinion about it being bad or good, i just deal with it and sometimes trying to use it to my advantage

Edit: as my intuition tells me, shield only defends you if shield building does not die or something, in most of my test shield itself was outside of inner ring, and target was inside of it being under shield.... i am not exactly sure here

also death damage explosions of exps do get blocked by shields... some times you may try to drop your flying t4s on para and if you are not accurate and t3 shielding is good then shield may happen to be inbetween target and impact point, and even if splash should have been damage target, shield will soak damage fully or partually

[keyser]

Ok so i didn't know that explosion being stop by shield is a bug.
Can't do test atm, but in "not beta" (at least) the explosion is absorbed. So there is a bug that need to be fix.
Actually i do like the fact that shield absorbe the explosion. It makes sense to me.
I need to do some test to determine if we can make an anti-nuke completelly protected against 1 nuke. (especially with sera). (and some other test, i will put result here afterward.. No idea why it hasn't been fix before, even if some bugs about shield have been already fixed in last month)

Edit : yes i'm obviously talking about nuke landing out side of shield range.
Gonna test the bug you said zlo, i'm failing to see the difference between it and the fact that mobile shield work properly (if shield absorbing nuke explosion isn't a bug)

[IceDreamer]

If any shield is ever blocking any nuke damage, it's a bug. In Vanilla, nukes would roll their damage, which is stopped by shields. As of FA, GPG changed nukes (IMO for the better) to ignore shielding completely. Nuke damage is done using the DamageArea() function at a given ground location, which applies that damage to all units inside that zone, and takes no notice of shielding or terrain whatsoever... Most of the time. It's not entirely consistent :/ I have re-written the way nukes inherit their code in 3652 (Objective was no changes to gameplay, just cleaning up a few hundred lines of copy-pasted code), so debugging anything wrong will at least be easier in future. I also fixed a bug introduced in FAF at some point which caused nuke damage hitting a shield but not in range of the base to kill the building!

[keyser]

Well you area damage thing doesn't work at all.. At least that was when i tested it
Same as zlo, i used to try to shield my com and defend nuke like that. It wasn't obviously a bug for me.

[Ithilis_Quo]

Im not totaly sure about everything that i say now, because it was about half year in past when was testing it.

But here was some bug that in some causes destroy all shields(building) when nuke explosion(also outer ring) hit shield bubble, And in some other causes shield (bubble) absorb parth of damage unit under it. Its not consistant and i dont remember on with situation is with reasult. Both of them are bugged behaviour, or at least are agains line that say that damage should penetrate shield. in one casue damage have more range as should have, in another is less as should be.

About submarine nuke, here is issue with outerring damage. I dont remember exaktli what it was, but i think that its better against shield as normal nuke, while it take more damage in outer ring, what mean that it destroy also seraphim T3 shield, while normal nuke not.

But take this as mumble bamlbe notes, while on this time i only remember that here is something wrong and dont remember details.