automatch/ladder map pool

[Mel_Gibson]

I've seen said a couple of times that other RTS games have very few maps in the pool. Possibly off topic, but i'm curious because Sup Com is the only RTS i've ever really played since it was released. Are maps in other RTS games as fundamentally important to how you play as much as they are with sup com? The intricacies of mass energy per tick, distance to resources, build power, reclaim and the timing of how you do things of things vary significantly from map to map from what my noob brain is telling me.

I mean, on bermuda you can build a 15min GC without ever building a mex whereas you'd only be 40% complete next year on winter dual even with your mexes. Maps are less a platform on which to play the game and more part of the game, are the other RTS games like this too?

Edit: I'm not condoning building GCs on either of these maps.

[JaggedAppliance]

Age of Empires 2 has tons of maps.

Different maps have different gameplay and if you lower the number of maps you will lower the diversity of gameplay, I don't know why some people can't see how important maps are to the gameplay of faf.

[Mad`Mozart]

Just a small correction: SC2 has 7 maps in 1v1 pool. GSL, the most prestigious SC2 tournament also has 7.

And here, my fellow disciples, is another example of a horribly bad arguement.
You should never compare an e-sports discipline with tons of moneyz and an amateur game environment where players try to stay competitive. These two things are worlds apart.

Holy shit can you please stop acting like contributors owe you something

Lol never.
Thats only how you see it

[Morax]

Different maps have different gameplay and if you lower the number of maps you will lower the diversity of gameplay, I don't know why some people can't see how important maps are to the gameplay of faf.

That and it will make it much harder for people to memorize BOs so we can see reactionary gameplay reign supreme.

[Kalvirox]

+ i don t really understand your answer, if people don t like 5x5 they have the right to say it. "Being sick" of them is quite a stupid attitude.

They can say it, but it has too much influence on the end result.
I'm really starting to like this big map pool idea. I can stick 45 maps in 1 pool, add a veto system so that some (and not all) of the maps I don't like are not played and still have a large diversity of the types of maps played.

This opt in/out doesn't have a chance in hell of happening until PC gets elected, and even then its a sketchy possibility.

Final note, I (half)voted for the mappool that Blodir suggested on sunday or whatever. Only because the map pool for ladder was overdue a change,

Also this is quite ironical, if you expand the pool you are giving BOs a massive advantage over players who have no BO at all

That's not true at all, because everyone will have BO's for the overplayed maps that they have been playing since the small pool was introduced.

Atm with "small" pool everyone has some kind of BO so you don't get ridiculous advantage

When it comes to maps I don't know what kind of build to use I go back to basics and use the builds that you were taught when you learned the game. land 2 pgen 2 mex 4 pgen air or whatever, funnily enough you don't fall that far behind with it. You will have this in a big map pool as well.

[Morax]

Also this is quite ironical, if you expand the pool you are giving BOs a massive advantage over players who have no BO at all

That's not true at all, because everyone will have BO's for the overplayed maps that they have been playing since the small pool was introduced.

Atm with "small" pool everyone has some kind of BO so you don't get ridiculous advantage

When it comes to maps I don't know what kind of build to use I go back to basics and use the builds that you were taught when you learned the game. land 2 pgen 2 mex 4 pgen air or whatever, funnily enough you don't fall that far behind with it. You will have this in a big map pool as well.

Oh I forgot to reply to this but Kalv basically said what I wanted to.

I'll add that with a larger pool it becomes quite difficult to whore BOs, and if you can still do it all the props to that person.

[Gorton]

Also this is quite ironical, if you expand the pool you are giving BOs a massive advantage over players who have no BO at all

That's not true at all, because everyone will have BO's for the overplayed maps that they have been playing since the small pool was introduced.

Atm with "small" pool everyone has some kind of BO so you don't get ridiculous advantage

When it comes to maps I don't know what kind of build to use I go back to basics and use the builds that you were taught when you learned the game. land 2 pgen 2 mex 4 pgen air or whatever, funnily enough you don't fall that far behind with it. You will have this in a big map pool as well.

Oh I forgot to reply to this but Kalv basically said what I wanted to.

I'll add that with a larger pool it becomes quite difficult to whore BOs, and if you can still do it all the props to that person.

When the pool is larger and people don't have time to create builds, you have to adapt on the fly
That adaptation is something I want to see in players

[Ithilis_Quo]

This is for discusion,

Someone want to see adaptation, and someone more profi gameplay. When its new environment its adaptation and more reale measure of game skill, but this gameplay is not that profesional. Its less epic gameplay as when you train what to play and where. Thats also why in most of competituon, like totaly most of player know environment and doesnt matther that it is not real.
Ladder should be some kind of competition, it dont must exactly describe player real skill. Only because its more fun for play, and watch.

But can understand this call for more improvisation, and less build ordering and planing before every game. Most people dont do it but its possible. But i dont agree with it because quality of game and fun will go down. And that is what matther (at last for me)

[Mad`Mozart]

We really need new map rotations.
The fact that PC has retired himself from position doesnt mean rotations should stop. The whole point of current small pool was to keep it easy to approach for people who are new / dont play much ladder and keep it fresh for experienced players as well. And i gotta tell you that it has already started to stink. Getting tired of these maps already.

Start rotating again pls.

[Zock]

I'd like to put forth a request for slightly more 5x5 on the ladder.
Not much. just 2 more maps, bringing the total to ~4-5.
Reasoning: I like it. It's fun to have a nice, prolonged fight that takes all your concentration to manage while trying to increase production / tech . It also teaches a lot of unit micro / acu micro!

Therefore they should be included. Regardless of whatever you think. Sure, not in large quantities. But an increase in 1 doesn't matter. It might even reduce the number of 10x10 maps that there are (because there are so many of them, they get boring after a while).

Possible for the next long term rotation, but so far you and Kalvi are the only ones in favour..

What is 10 new map every mouth, what is bad with it?

Let's assume you need 5 games on average to be semi-comfortable on a map. That would be 50 games. If you play one game per day, you will get 30 games, and the maps will change just when you started to learn them a little bit better, and you have to learn new ones. You can argue that people who play one game per day shouldn't play ladder, or that they have to deal with playing maps they don't know very well and "just have to learn the game" (which is stupid if you ask me, but what do i know ), but every solution will have downsides and either be too much for people who play little or too little for people who play much. Or both, the best compromise leaves everyone unhappy after all. It is also possible to change the pace of long term rotations, or the amount of maps in short term rotation for a better compromise.

Having a part of the pool being static to give people who need it a familiar base, and the other part more dynamic to not bore people who play more too fast is the current approach. (While hoping for someone to code an opt-in system for a big pool) It won't please everyone, and how big each part needs to be exactly can and has to be improved over time.

We really need new map rotations.
The fact that PC has retired himself from position doesnt mean rotations should stop. The whole point of current small pool was to keep it easy to approach for people who are new / dont play much ladder and keep it fresh for experienced players as well. And i gotta tell you that it has already started to stink. Getting tired of these maps already.

Start rotating again pls.

The last long term rotation is only 1.5 month ago. According to the plan, next one will be in another 1.5 month.

Short term rotation is overdue, but it will probably not please you as it changes only 3 maps.

Next rotation will be coming as soon as sheeo has time:


5x5
theta
cobalt (10x10 but has 5x5 gameplay)
canis river (short rotation)

10x10
badlands
loki
niflheim
palms
syrtis
twin Rivers
vya
eots
craftious maximus (short rotation)

20x20
point of reach (short rotation)
bermuda
roanoke