Engy-mod

[Cuddles]

In an effort to keep things constructive lets start with a ref http://www.faforever.com/tag/engy-mod/

Higher tech engies are not used, hordes if t1 engineers are still used. Could a simple buff in health for the higher tech engies help?

It's not just efficiency that has t1 engineers favored over t2 and t3, but the risk involved.

I see t2 and t3 engineers as an investment. I won't risk them around a factory. Or does my mind set around them need to changes.

The downside would be horrible PD spam. This could be addressed with reduced T2 PD health, forcing you to use shields with them or an increase in build time?

Or is the answer something like this viewtopic.php?f=42&t=10495 [Disable collisions for active engineers]

[Myxir]

1000 units as unit limit, t1 engies provide the best build power per unit costs, they can be built from every factory
while these reasons exists, it's unlikely that many people will switch to t2/t3 engy spam

[Cuddles]

so what about being able to build higher tech level engi at all time, but not being able to build the appropriate tech level buildings without having an HQ.

Just brainstorming guys, don't shoot me.

[Lionhardt]

not an idea without any merit, i'd say.

[Valki]

I have averaged the dps of the main 'tanks' at each tier (of all factions) and calculated the average survival time of several units per tier. I calculated the average survival time of the main tanks, the mobile anti-air units, and the engineers.

It does indeed show a significant drops in engineer survival time at higher tiers.

T1: Average tank dps = 25.5
Heaviest Tank: 9.7 seconds
Anti-air: 7.2 seconds
Engineer: 5.3 seconds

T2: Average tank dps = 93.5
Heavist Tank: 23.1 seconds
Anti-air: 10.7 seconds
Engineer: 2.9 seconds

T3: Average tank dps = 387.5
Percival overkill on engineer is ignored, using Titan instead of Percival would result in average dps of 329 and 20% higher survival times)
Heaviest Tank: 19.9 seconds
Anti-air: 5.3 seconds
Engineer: 1.4 seconds

Taking into consideration overkill, T1 engineers are in fact superior against single-target damage T3 units. Less buildpower is killed per second when T3 units attack T1 engineers than T3 engineers.

Spoiler: show

Buildpower killed per second
[b]T3: Average survival times, taking overkill into consideration
Harbringer: 300 damage every 0.8 seconds
Survival time*: 0.8 / 0.8 / 1.6
Buildpower per second killed: 6.3 / 15.6 / 25

Loyalist: 3 times 175 damage every 3.3 seconds, 1x 12 damage every 0.4 seconds
Survival time*: complicated
Buildpower per second killed: ~6.1 / ~7.8 / ~14.2

Brick: 150 damage every 0.4 seconds
Survival time*: 0.4 / 0.8 / 1.6
Buildpower per second killed: 12.5 / 15.6 / 25

Titan: 50 damage every 0.3 seconds
Survival time*: 0.9 / 1.8 / 3.3
Buildpower per second killed: 5.6 / 6.9 / 12.1

Percival: 1600 damage every 4 seconds
Survival time*: 4 / 4 / 4
Buildpower per second killed: 1.3 / 3.1 / 10

Othuum: 2x 75 damage every 0.5 seconds, 1x 400 damage every 4 seconds
Survival time*: complicated
Buildpower per second killed: 6.3 / 9.4 / 15

*I ignored alpha strike

INCREASING ENGINEER HP
If we would take the survival time relation of T1 Anti-Air and T1 Engineer and say that relation should be used for T2 and T3 engineers, then the average survival time of an engineer would be 74% of the survival time of anti-air.

This would result in the following hitpoint values:

Spoiler: show

New engineer hp values and survival time
T1 engineer (for reference)
Average hp: 135
Average survival time: 5.3 seconds

T2 engineer
Current average hp: 270
Current average survival time: 2.9 seconds
New average hp: 740
New average survival time: 7.9 seconds

T3 engineer
Current average hp: 530
Current average survival time: 1.4 seconds
New average hp: 1516
New average survival time: 4.6 seconds

[JaggedAppliance]

Is having lots of t1 engies everywhere a problem that needs to be solved? I don't really see why.

[ZLO_RD]

Is having lots of t1 engies everywhere a problem that needs to be solved? I don't really see why.

1) units gets stuck
2) lags like hell

Existing buffs are nice, but to make higher tier engies you need to make higher tier factory and that is probably main reason why no one likes to spam t3 engies...

[justmakenewgame]

or make tons of t1 engies to spam t3 engies... oh wait. Or make engy station usefull ffs

[Cuddles]

or make tons of t1 engies to spam t3 engies... oh wait. Or make engy station usefull ffs

Not everyone has station though, although the two factions without them has had buffs to the engineers.

I don't see stations built in 1v1 i'm not sure why? probably because the engineers are more efficient.

Valki, nice!

Here is a post from 2013 on topic viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3059 with posts from some of the top players.

[Mad`Mozart]

You forget that t1 engies is the easiest way to get build power. Like that engy dedicated first factory in most games, where you put it to infinite engy loop and forget. Or build more t1 facs cause well, you have t1 engies around doing whatever you ordered them to do (patrol, reclaim, assisting fac, etc) so you select one and you can only build t1 fac.

Its simply convenient and very easy way to get build power. I only see 2 ways stopping people spam t1 engies: either make it very inefficient or absurdly overcomplicate it. Dont even know why you have problems with t1 engies in the first place since engiemod.

PS oh and Valki, you forgot to include mass cost per unit in your calculation. Pretty sure you cant compare t1 engie + t1 tank cost vs t2 engie + t2 tank etc.