strategy versus memorization/attention

[bigcrap757]

I have been playing supcom FA for a long time now and have an interesting question to ask: how much of supcom is strategy? I am in no way certain about this and am very open to counter arguments, but it seems like winning requires the player remembering certain steps rather than making decisions. It seems that most of the decisions are "should I tech up/upgrade this or build this?" and most of the time the answer to that relies on one question: do the enemy have the units to overrun me/higher tech? Most of my problems seem to not come from making a wrong decision, but rather from forgetting to build factories or upgrade mass. I am interested in seeing what you guys have to say.

[Flamingo]

If you watch some of the really good players, you'll see them do insane things without upgrading their mexes. Stuff you'd think you couldn't get away with, but their micro, reclaim, and awareness is so good that they can make the income really count. You actually don't have to upgrade your mexes according to a route mental check-list but it can help to do so if you're still getting familiar with the game - eventually you'll stop doing that, because there are periods where the cost of upgrading will make you vulnerable if your opponent simply continues troop production. It takes about five minutes to recover the cost of upgrading a mex to T3, for example, so if you can't survive for five minutes after the upgrade, it might be what killed you.

There are a few things you need to remember. ALWAYS build TMDs once you hit T2. You don't want to forget that for long enough that a TML kills your whole economy in one sitting.

Aside from that your choices are pretty dependent on what you're going for. There's quite a lot of strategy involved in this game, especially with the way that holding certain positions can give you both a resource boost and a solid attack avenue.

If you feel like you're only losing because you didn't build enough factories or upgrade your mexes, it's likely you're only just getting to know the game. Those are some awfully passive factors to be losing on. The way you use your ACU early on tends to have a greater impact on the game than that.

[nine2]

well yeah i think like you say its about not getting left behind ... look at what the other guy has and try and make sure you keep up in tanks/air/eco and try and try and get more of something and use that to ultimately kill him.

But it is a strategic decision to go tech 2. Or to get the gun. Or to build t2 power. This is strategic because you are choosing to give something up (more t1 units) in exchange for something else.

I don't know if you play team games or 1v1 but I would say the choices are more strategic in 1v1 ... because in a team game each player is protected by their team, which dilutes the effectiveness of every strategy except heavy eco. Eg: so whilst going early t2 air can still work its much more likely in a team game that the enemy will have flak.

So I see what you mean but I think there is still strategy. Yes many of your decisions are a reflection of what the enemy has just done, but there is still room to make big decisions.

You forget to build factories and upgrade mass? That's pretty terrible I would be scouting my opponent fairly opposite and estimating how many facs and t2 mexes he has to see if I am getting left behind (or if I am leaving him behind). That act is one reminder that I should build more stuff. The other reminder is my mass bar would be full otherwise

[KD7BCH]

Remembering to build TMD, SMD, start your RAS before T3 factory, All of these things, it is hard to keep pace knowing what to expect and what your opponent is doing at all times too helps but invaringly some things fall through the cracks and it is the player with the best ability to recover that wins, or the one who makes the fewest mistakes.

[nine2]

bigcrap is not asking for more little rules to remember.

he is asking if this is really a strategy game or if we are just going through a checklist.

[bigcrap757]

I only play team games, that may make it less strategic.

[nine2]

Well im sure lots of people wont agree with me. any time you change tech it is a strategic choice ... i think its just in a team game you will be forced to reactively upgrade tech quite quickly to keep up ... so there is less to decide. However at t3 stage you reach a crossroads and get to make decisions again. Will you go t3 spam / experimental / nuke / scus etc?

If you want more decisions play some ranked games ... there you will really pay for your decisions over and over again

[justmakenewgame]

strategic more the n anything. But yes, a lot of attension and you need to know numbers to make strat decisions.

[speed2]

If you starr a game without having a strategy, you will most likely be forced to follow your opponent's strategy. And that is not a way to win.

[Valki]

I have been playing supcom FA for a long time now and have an interesting question to ask: how much of supcom is strategy? I am in no way certain about this and am very open to counter arguments, but it seems like winning requires the player remembering certain steps rather than making decisions. It seems that most of the decisions are "should I tech up/upgrade this or build this?" and most of the time the answer to that relies on one question: do the enemy have the units to overrun me/higher tech? Most of my problems seem to not come from making a wrong decision, but rather from forgetting to build factories or upgrade mass. I am interested in seeing what you guys have to say.

I feel that, especially early on, much revolves around remembering critical steps. The economy is very complicated, there are many small things you can forget, and scouting is not very easy.

For me the strategy part of the game began when I could match my good opponents in eco and basic 'memorization'. Now I'm more often getting a feeling that I play a strategy game; mostly by clever raiding. It is fun to position forces at two or three fronts, baiting the enemy with something (maybe my ACU), and running a force into their base.

Later on, strategy emerges when your front is strong enough that you can invest in something, and then you can choose what that something is. And there is offcourse the unit composition. Building fast & fragile hover tanks in T2 is kinda risky, but they can do a lot of damage if they get to the right place.

Still, I would absolutely love it if the game would automate, or offer automation, on these memorization things you mentioned. I suggested advanced notifications for this as a start viewtopic.php?f=42&t=10200. But more could be done.