The new map rotation for the ladder

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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Iszh » 23 Jul 2015, 08:37

If you managed with the system before to get 6 times the same map you ve done something definately wrong especially since i never played this map somehow and had it selected. If you would deselect the most played maps ttaadaaaa you already get a nice result it will with high chance not appear anymore and to get even twice a map in a row is nearly impossible. If you are not able to select 15 useful maps or simply select all you like and remove the most liked from your list then it is your problem. It means you are not able to handle the former map system. Even if you dont select any it was nearly impossible to get a map twice in a row. But 6 times wtf? Just because some people have not been able to select maps and think meanwhile what they are doing we have now only 13 maps fixed. Great ... nobody can help you if you selected only 5 maps. With this map pool maybe it will not sound logic to you but the chance for repeating maps increased by 500%.
Last edited by Iszh on 23 Jul 2015, 08:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Mad`Mozart » 23 Jul 2015, 08:41

Also i see some people are talking about game lenght in ladder, here's a post i made some time ago about it:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10201&start=10#p103134
Can go and check games in replay vault yourself, im pretty sure you will get same results.

SeraphimLeftNut wrote:An option to have different map pools for different levels, or an option to use a different map pool, or an option to opt out of some maps are all great ideas that will require more work from the team, but I don't think there is anyone against those options.

Im against opting out or any kind of veto. It was making sense before but now the pool is already small and this is intended to be a competitive game mode after all. Dont wanna play a map, just quit and search for another game :|

Iszh wrote:If you managed with the system before to get 6 times the same map you ve done something definately wrong especially since i never played this map somehow and had it selected. If you would deselect the most played maps ttaadaaaa you already get a nice result it will with high chance not appear anymore and to get even twice a map in a row is nearly impossible.

Seriously, this is the shittest arguement ever.
Why do people keep telling me to deselect maps that i want to play? How will i get to play them then?? That is not the solution, yes i wont be annoyed that i get Twin Rivers, Badlands etc. all the time. But i will be getting Syrtis, Open Palms, #insertyourmapname that i selected instead, how will that solve anything? Please think before you say something and start making some sense. The issue was that you're getting only 5 maps out of your 15 selected. And honestly, now the map variety will actually be bigger with 13 maps than it was before with 70...

Rest of your post was probably based on assumption i only had 5 maps selected? So yeah... not even answering to that :D
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Iszh » 23 Jul 2015, 10:06

Ok fine TA told that the ladder maps will be changed most likely every 2 weeks. I hardly play to many games within such a time fine, everybody likes it except me. But since we have now a small competitive ladder map pool why you dont enable the normal league and seasons system again. The 1v1 rating will stay permanent and the league system will be changed. Make seasons with 3 monthes and alike zep had it before. People are spread in different groups randomly and will stay in their group and are spread every season according to their rating. Then you have winners every 3 monthes like long term tournament and the not permanent league avatars first of league and first of squad have a meaning again :

Season 2 http://www.faforever.com/2013/03/season ... bCf70znU28
mappool http://www.faforever.com/2013/03/season ... bCgBUznU28
Season 3 http://www.faforever.com/2013/07/league ... bCgJUznU28
Season 4 http://www.faforever.com/2013/10/league ... bCgQEznU28

and so on. Winners get avatar. Thats 5 avatars every 3 monthes :mrgreen: but in fact the season should have all the same maps. Then you can give the seasons nice names according to the ladder map selection like Season of Dragon or season of Fish :lol: and the winners are ....
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Fast-Thick-Pants » 23 Jul 2015, 10:49

Ohh I am gutted, I enjoy the small maps and the quick games, this is fun 1v1 is it not?? If I had time for long games I would play custom. So what is left... the thetas? Well that is good but it will get old, fast I think, I would like to play a couple of games a day and preferably on different maps. A short while ago I would be able to find 15 minutes for a 1v1 and get mini isis, colbolt, blasted moonlight, clover and I even enjoyed the odd game on balvery mountains.

What is left for the likes of me now? Well right now it is theta or theta.

Please return it to how it was, let the people vote for their favourite maps under the map selection button and they can be sure that their vote will count rather than being some ultimately useless vote for a minority-enjoyed map in some godforsaken rota.

...was godforsaken too strong?

Yours steadfastly,
Fast.
Last edited by Fast-Thick-Pants on 23 Jul 2015, 11:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Blodir » 23 Jul 2015, 10:52

speed2 wrote:
Seraphim Outpost: sorry speed2, just about everyone hates this map. While jamming is certainly something different, it does not really enhance a players gaming experience. 'Cancer' I believe is the correct terminology. There's also quite a few annoying map design decisions that just don't make it very enjoyable to play (reclaim, mex placement etc.)

Dear Blodir, from someone like you, who is also making maps, I would expect actual feedback and not just throwing shit at my map.

There is a comment section in map vault or forum post in mapping section for feedback.

If you think mex placement, reclaim or anything else could be improved then maybe post it and explain why its bad and possible suggestions for improvemens. Some replay of yours is also welcome.

And please dont be so full of yourself by sayinf everyone hates my map. You are not everyone.

Okay my comment might have been a little too aggressive, so I apologize for that. However I do think you have misinterpreted the purpose of it. This thread is about the ladder mappool: I was trying to offer reasoning as to why your map should not be included in the mappool, not give direct feedback on its design. Again, this is not the place for map feedback, don't expect it here.

As to "just about everyone" hating your map... that might be a slight overstatement, however I do believe that it's fairly unpopular. I don't think I have ever witnessed a ladder match on it and I have seen a plethora of unfavorable comments on it.

I do appreciate the work you put into Seraphim Outpost, but I just don't think it would make a nice addition to the mappool. If you want detailed reasoning in why I don't like the map, I'll provide it if you ask in ts or pm.

**
Some people seemed to think that a smaller mappool leads to more buildorder whoring... in fact that's the point. In a big (~15) mappool only the most active players have any consistency in their builds, whereas in a small (~6) map pool less experienced players have at least a fighting chance instead of falling far behind in the first 5 minutes out of build order alone.
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Hascins » 23 Jul 2015, 11:03

Iszh wrote:Ok fine TA told that the ladder maps will be changed most likely every 2 weeks. I hardly play to many games within such a time fine, everybody likes it except me. But since we have now a small competitive ladder map pool why you dont enable the normal league and seasons system again. The 1v1 rating will stay permanent and the league system will be changed. Make seasons with 3 monthes and alike zep had it before. People are spread in different groups randomly and will stay in their group and are spread every season according to their rating. Then you have winners every 3 monthes like long term tournament and the not permanent league avatars first of league and first of squad have a meaning again :

Season 2 http://www.faforever.com/2013/03/season ... bCf70znU28
mappool http://www.faforever.com/2013/03/season ... bCgBUznU28
Season 3 http://www.faforever.com/2013/07/league ... bCgJUznU28
Season 4 http://www.faforever.com/2013/10/league ... bCgQEznU28

and so on. Winners get avatar. Thats 5 avatars every 3 monthes :mrgreen: but in fact the season should have all the same maps. Then you can give the seasons nice names according to the ladder map selection like Season of Dragon or season of Fish :lol: and the winners are ....


Love this!
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby SeraphimLeftNut » 23 Jul 2015, 11:04

Fast-Thick-Pants wrote:Ohh I am gutted, I enjoy the small maps and the quick games, this is fun 1v1 is it not?? If I had time for long games I would play custom. So what is left... the thetas? Well that is good but it will get old, fast I think, I would like to play a couple of games a day and preferably on different maps. A short while ago I would be able to find 15 minutes for a 1v1 and get mini isis, colbolt, blasted moonlight, clover and I even enjoyed the odd game on balvery mountains.

What is left for the likes of me now? Well right now it is theta or theta.

Please return it to how it was, let the people vote for their favourite maps under the map selection button and they can be sure that their vote will count rather than being some ultimately useless vote for a minority-enjoyed map in some godforsaken rota.

...was godforsaken too strong?

Yours steadfastly,
Fast.


Given the initial response we will be putting 1-3 5x5 maps back into the ladder pool in 2 weeks. I need suggestions. Right now maps like crimson, cobalt, canis are near the top of my list.
no ui lag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MdcVdL2kIY
I think this is going to be fun
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Col_Walter_Kurtz » 23 Jul 2015, 11:08

Only one 5km map in the core pool? 5km maps are easiest to play for ladder noobs such as me. Since most of ladder consists of noobs, this is something to consider. It's hard to focus on everything happening in a 10km or larger map until you have it automated in your head. And for that to happen you need time, time that a lot of people don't have or want to spend on ladder.

edit: also Blasted Rock is such a classic, it should always be in the core
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Fast-Thick-Pants » 23 Jul 2015, 11:22

SeraphimLeftNut wrote:
Given the initial response we will be putting 1-3 5x5 maps back into the ladder pool in 2 weeks. Right now maps like crimson, cobalt, canis are near the top of my list.



Oh good. But still, why must there be a huge reduction to the map pool? The malcontented are always the most vocal. Those players like me who have been quietly 1v1ing and enjoying themselves immensely have not been voicing their pleasure with the current system, this does not happen.

If players want a limited, precise pool then you cannot get more limited than a custom game which has zero randomness. However, I want to click a button that might as well be labelled 'surprise me'. I want a player preferably picked from a large pool (if more players would go to ladder that would be great) and a map picked from a large pool.

Furthermore, my tastes are quite particular and my time quite limited, so of the kind of map I want (5x5) I would like a large selection, this means you need an equally large selection of 10x10 and 20x20 for players unlike myself. The only remaining solution therefore is a suitable huge pool to provide variety for all tastes.

Yours steadfastly,
Fast.
Last edited by Fast-Thick-Pants on 23 Jul 2015, 16:35, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Vee » 23 Jul 2015, 11:28

Given the initial response we will be putting 1-3 5x5 maps back into the ladder pool in 2 weeks. I need suggestions. Right now maps like crimson, cobalt, canis are near the top of my list.


This is why a personal map selection is better than a small pool: now Mozart and TA have to play 5x5 maps against each other, even though neither of them likes 5x5 maps. Meanwhile other players aren't happy because now 80% of the maps are 10x10 and 20x20...

BTW, cobalt is such a good 5x5 map because it's not actually 5x5 ;-)
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