The new map rotation for the ladder

Talk about general things concerning Forged Alliance Forever.

Moderators: FtXCommando, Ze Dogfather

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Anihilnine » 23 Jul 2015, 04:49

I heart Cobalt Valley
Anihilnine
Councillor - Promotion
 
Posts: 2383
Joined: 16 Apr 2013, 10:10
Has liked: 284 times
Been liked: 472 times
FAF User Name: Anihilnine

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby belatedcube » 23 Jul 2015, 05:50

I suggest adding in sera glaciers, badlands, cobalt valley, and esgaroths ruins in rotation.
[BC]Totaltuna: always look before you tab
belatedcube
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 28 Sep 2014, 20:54
Has liked: 21 times
Been liked: 14 times
FAF User Name: belatedcube1021

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby theeggroll » 23 Jul 2015, 06:15

SeraphimLeftNut wrote:If I keep seeing people want 5v5 maps we will get those in, people should also post which small maps they would want to see.
An option to have different map pools for different levels, or an option to use a different map pool, or an option to opt out of some maps are all great ideas that will require more work from the team, but I don't think there is anyone against those options.

I would disagree with the statement that is map pool is pro oriented. In my opinion a good player can more easily beat someone on a map that they both have not seen than on a familiar map, since on famliar maps players can rely more on memory and what they have seen in replays, rather than understanding what is going on.


The reason these are pro oriented is that a lot of them have VERY complex BO's, and you have to play zoomed out and manage air navy land and eco and the ability to manage all three is a massive pain in the ass.
GMT - 6 http://spooky.github.io/unitdb/#/
When in doubt, Blame Gorton
User avatar
theeggroll
Priest
 
Posts: 442
Joined: 22 Dec 2014, 23:57
Has liked: 228 times
Been liked: 98 times
FAF User Name: theeggroll

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Aulex » 23 Jul 2015, 06:19

Honestly, I don't understand the gripe with this upper level map pool choice. Ladder is a place of competition, you play to compete for the glory of a higher rating if you care, you play it to get better, or you play it to judge your skill. Yes it can be annoying for lower rated players because it's not easy to manage difficult maps, but you must realize, a 1k rated 1v1er wont be playing a 2k rated 1v1er, you are matched to your skill set, your opponent will be having the same issues as you. If you don't want to be pressured during play, then don't play ladder, play custom 1v1, play fun team games with your friends. Why do you think a leaderboard exists.

The map choices are good maps, but they are boring, some diversity would be nice. Maybe have each map promote some style of play with each style being unique per map. Or you could just do the 3 6 6 split.
"Let's start beating ass and die" - drunk TA4Life

"Just because you have a d*** doesn't mean you need to be one...pussy" -Blackdeath

SCOUTING SAVES LIVES
http://imgur.com/YGk0W0o

How to play Sup Com by Ubilaz
http://goo.gl/je83z
User avatar
Aulex
Contributor
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 17 Nov 2012, 05:29
Has liked: 299 times
Been liked: 225 times
FAF User Name: VoR_Aulex

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Valki » 23 Jul 2015, 07:02

I liked 5x5 maps a lot, and still do in principle. However, I developed a very cheap build where I build 10 arty before first mex which lets me win almost every single 5x5 game with a short rush distance (rating 600). Balvery Mountains is the worst offender.

We should just leave all maps with short rush distance out of the pool. This is what they did with Starcraft 2.

5x5 I (still) like:
  • Ambush Pass
  • Canis River
  • Desert Rock
  • Desert Joust
  • Winter Duel

But I'm not sure if any (non-rush) 5x5 should be core, 5x5 maps or much easier to learn than bigger ones. I'd put most 5x5 in rotation. Maybe Canis River and Desert Rock are good and difficult enough for core.
Valki
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 237
Joined: 20 Dec 2012, 18:03
Has liked: 9 times
Been liked: 27 times
FAF User Name: Valki

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Iszh » 23 Jul 2015, 07:05

I didnt play ladder for some time now. But with 10 maps in ladder map pool i am not really eager not play anymore. I dont play regulary and then to play people who already learned any map by heart which is in map pool, is no fun. And i tell you with those 13 maps it will happen. I liked the choice between this 80 maps and from my experience i had more or less random maps since i ve chosen 70 of those 80 maps (you can watch my replay 1v1 list). Sorry thats my opinion about this but of course i dont play enough ladder to have influence here :roll:

I can agree the chosen maps sound nice but the problem is that there are only a few and i liked all maps which have been in map rotation before except maybe 4-5. Maybe a better way than to limit the map choice so drastic is that you make exactly the same system as before and simply take 33% not random maps but only from bigger maps and if somebody has not chose his 15 maps then fill it as well with a choice of bigger maps. Just while watching my own replay list i noticed yes mostly there are medium and small maps vya and so on you hardly can see. but there are other ways to do this and not to limit the map pool down to 13 maps ... and now i watched in general 1v1 in replay vault and can see that exactly what i predict here is happening. nearly no map difference anymore. You can see the few maps repeating all the time ...

I can understand your complains but the way it is done now is bad! If you want to guide something to another direction there are milder ways. This solution is very radical. And 13 is the number of evil!

Edit: So many mistakes in my text that i still was not able to remove all :D
Last edited by Iszh on 23 Jul 2015, 07:39, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Iszh
Evaluator
 
Posts: 827
Joined: 26 Apr 2012, 08:51
Has liked: 116 times
Been liked: 126 times
FAF User Name: Iszh

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Anihilnine » 23 Jul 2015, 07:25

Aulex wrote:Honestly, I don't understand the gripe with this upper level map pool choice. Ladder is a place of competition, you play to compete for the glory of a higher rating if you care, you play it to get better, or you play it to judge your skill. Yes it can be annoying for lower rated players because it's not easy to manage difficult maps, but you must realize, a 1k rated 1v1er wont be playing a 2k rated 1v1er, you are matched to your skill set, your opponent will be having the same issues as you. If you don't want to be pressured during play, then don't play ladder, play custom 1v1, play fun team games with your friends. Why do you think a leaderboard exists.


Well to help you understand ... I don't play ladder for any of those reasons. I play it because its a good way to get a nice 1v1 game quickly. I don't want to mess around with custom games.

I dont for a second think ladder should be sculpted to suit me, but perhaps it increases understanding
Anihilnine
Councillor - Promotion
 
Posts: 2383
Joined: 16 Apr 2013, 10:10
Has liked: 284 times
Been liked: 472 times
FAF User Name: Anihilnine

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Iszh » 23 Jul 2015, 07:54

Ahh and please while making perfect conditions for high rated players to fly in heaven dont forget there are also people like me. Flying_Potato in my clan played nearly 20 ladder games per day. Watch his replay list map are repeating all the time now. Maybe ask him if he seriously likes this and if it will increase his activity. I havent asked him but i doubt it a lot.

Well he said he is fine with it so i might be wrong but i will stay on the wrong side :lol: I DO NOT LIKE IT! Because there are better ways to fix this and keep variety for people who like variety.
User avatar
Iszh
Evaluator
 
Posts: 827
Joined: 26 Apr 2012, 08:51
Has liked: 116 times
Been liked: 126 times
FAF User Name: Iszh

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby speed2 » 23 Jul 2015, 08:13

[quote]Seraphim Outpost: sorry speed2, just about everyone hates this map. While jamming is certainly something different, it does not really enhance a players gaming experience. 'Cancer' I believe is the correct terminology. There's also quite a few annoying map design decisions that just don't make it very enjoyable to play (reclaim, mex placement etc.)
[/guote]
Dear Blodir, from someone like you, who is also making maps, I would expect actual feedback and not just throwing shit at my map.

There is a comment section in map vault or forum post in mapping section for feedback.

If you think mex placement, reclaim or anything else could be improved then maybe post it and explain why its bad and possible suggestions for improvemens. Some replay of yours is also welcome.

And please dont be so full of yourself by sayinf everyone hates my map. You are not everyone.
User avatar
speed2
Contributor
 
Posts: 3185
Joined: 05 Jan 2013, 15:11
Has liked: 630 times
Been liked: 1113 times
FAF User Name: speed2

Re: The new map rotation for the ladder

Postby Mad`Mozart » 23 Jul 2015, 08:27

codepants wrote:I know I am just one of many. But my small, insignificant, meaningless vote is... it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't broken, and you tried to fix it. *Now* it's broken.

I wonder why you say that previous system wasnt broken. Maybe cause you were getting your maps all the time you felt it was working the way it was intended, but in reality it was very very far from that.

Previous system was hardcore biased towards players pool intersection and maps that matched in both pools had like 80-90% chance of being picked. So basically, playing ladder i was constantly getting those 5 maps from my list with everyone i played, cause they were selected for other people too. Rest 10 maps were left out with hardly any chance of getting them. Then there was my opponent's pool (with same issue tho) and the top 15 pool. Last year i had a 6 months break between Roanoke even though i had it selected all the time, but i managed to get Twin Rivers 6 times in a fucking row. Frustration level over9000, how is it not broken now?

But it doesnt end here. There was also top 15 pool which was affecting map choice too. If you had maps in your pool that were present in top 15 pool as well, you got very high chance of getting them too. You could cheat the system this way if you liked 5km maps (since top 15 pool was full of them) and annoy the living shit out of your opponents who didnt like them. Now you can remember Lame and his cheesy stuff he was abusing, wonder why he was able to it and got so high on ladder? Cause he was abusing this system as well getting his preferred maps. Another example when ZLO deselected all his maps not long ago, he played like 10 5km maps in a row vs Petric and some others.

That system was totally broken and whoever says it was not i dare you to prove me wrong.
Mad`Mozart
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 1092
Joined: 10 Mar 2013, 19:09
Has liked: 138 times
Been liked: 431 times

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest