SACU - prebuild units, and capacitator

[Ithilis_Quo]

Hi Pip, im loking on sacus and try clean the prebuild option, thay had big variety of function and combination so in final they can had plenty of different sacus, what is confusion from plenty of sacus units. then im loking on ras and capacitator(ok this part was confusion), here is it:

At first RAS:
- RAS mean reasourse alocation system, but this not as other ras, this is diferent and we need tell other ppl that this is diferent RAS as other, with diferent function, so i think we can rename ras for name what is better describe what is it:
RAS -> VRG - Volatile Reasource Generator
- when build RAS/VRG give range circle of explosion range
- give kamikadze toggle on SACU when build RAS/VRG, same as had cybran mobile bomb. so you can explode imediatly and not need w8 5sec by ctl+k


At second capacitator ubgrade:

Im not total shure what all this ubgrade do, but i probably never build it if it only bring more time on capacitator mode. Maybe it do something else as only do more time, and my suggestion would be wrong, my sugestion are about capacitator upgrade upgrade capacitator on qaualitativ too, not only on qauantity:

1. option) when had build capacitator, turn capacitator On give more visual intel, as when dont had build capacitator, Imho it can be 50 as had Aeon ACU with sensors. (and same as range of rocket)
2. option) when had build RAS, and capacitator ubgrade, and capacitator is ON and go kamikaze, give bigger dmg on explosion 3500->5000, (this combination cost 1900mass, cybran bomb do 3500 dmg on 4,5AOE and cost 300mass, and nomad damage friendly units too, cybran not)
3. option) when had build capacitator upgrade and capacitator is on, give bonus AOE dmg to gun/misiles/railgun
4. Apofenas influence ) when buy capacitator upg, and capacitator is on missile had +50% range, but dont give any dmg on palce after shot 50->75 (as wepon against sniper bot what is big weakness for nomads, can had only one misile, and deal only soft dmg, missile had big range so is unaccurate because it is long time to arrive to sniper bot destination, but had slithli better splash so can kill sniper bot, and be use as outrange turet, but mass effective is only agaianst unshieldet sniper and mobil arty.

(not only on SACU but on ACU too, pls remove posibility turn capacitator off when is on, he cant be turned off and make it false conviction that can, and save capacitator time, this doenst happend and ppl would ask why it doenst work)

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PREBUILD SACU

we had plenty of option, so can be nice had split line on SACU factory same as we had on Engyners when he had on one cell factorys, on second eco buildng on third defense building etc... Idea of nomads sacu is that they are more as common (battle) units as other sacu. So i think that we can rename prebuild Sacu to dont be called sacu with present, but simply new name of unit whitout SAC in name.
I rework your prebuild order what i decide to be on my opinion best option, dont take it personal:)

I imagine it that we would had 3 category, separate with split line (as on enginer build)
1. Army category (all are as army unit, not as sacu/eng)
2. Specialist category (all are army units not as sacu/eng)
3. support category (all are sacu/eng category)
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Left / back / Right
0= nothing

ARMY

Iron- 0 / 0 / 1gun 400 => 900mass
Rouge - 0/speed 400 / 1gun +2gun => 2000mass
Gunslinger - 0 /regen 800 / 1gun+2gun => 2400mass
Rambo - gatling 600 / powerArmor 4200 / 1gun+2gun => 6400mass


SPECIALIST

Granadier - missile 900/ 0 / missile 900 => 2300mass
Whaleman - Capacitator [new info from pip, dont know that it double ROF[ / 0 / Railgun 2000 => 3100mass
Pyroman - capacitator 600 / RAS 800 / 0 => 1900mass (only if capacitator upg rework)


SUPPORT

Skeleton - 0 / 0 /0 => 500mass
Classic/SACu - eng500 / 0 / 1gun 400 => 1400mass
Builder - eng / 0 / eng => 1500mass
Producer - 0 / RAS 800 / 0 => 1300mass

[Ithilis_Quo]

Hepko had perfectly idea about ACU RAS,

It was about split RAS on nomad ACU on RAS, and advanced RAS, similar as is on Aeon and Sera, but total diferent:)

First RAS would called simply ras, or small ras or shit ras or something like that , and would be same as is on SACU ras today = 800 mass/ 40 000 energy cost, but +-2 minute build time so it would drain 350e/sec on T1 ACU and gain +2 mass +400energy and +5sec capacitator (instead of 20 as is normal ras)
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Idea of this is gain new posibility for nomads how switch on fast T2 Air. Price of mass is similar as T2 mex, or T2 factory, but mutch biger cost of energy, So on economical is better build T2 factory and T2 Pgen but on time is this ras upgrade better choice for faster had more energy for team. This would mean that in team game can ppl can join efort to fast RAS same as are on T3 air, and fast had energy for T2 air, or gun upgrade, then can go to fight. It is total new option in strategy what is pretty similar as on normal RAS but on end of T1 phase... Im not total sure about energy cost but think that 35-40 000 would be fine.

And on this can be build "advanced" RAS what is same as is RAS now but cost less on 50% price of this small ras upgrade.

[Ithilis_Quo]

This is about T3 Land balance but i put it here

T3 mobile artilery: HP 800-> 1600
yeah, Im serious..
(if too big problem then rise price to 850/900mass)

It is simply help for nomads on T3 because dont had shield/stealth. When play against serafin/aeon they use as counter to novas range sniper bot, what are pretty well mass effective. Nomads then must use air or something what had biger range as sniper bot = mobile artilery. oponents can shield thay snipers with artilery, what nomads cant, because dont had shield. So against wise oponent nomad lose on lack of shield on they atrilery. 1600 is number where arti stay alive after 2 aeon sniper hit, or after 2 UEF/sera/3cybran atrilery hit, so had one shot more as others, or 3shot less when oponent had shield or many time shot less when is serafin

T1 scout / T3 spy plane Add artilery suport ability, not on whole visual range but on range as is visual range for units with artilery suport ability.
Why? Because some artilery units are whitout suport preatty unacurate, especialy mml, and is more logic that this feature would be on air scout when is on gunship too. and mostly because units who is going suport artilery aiming probably fast die, so is better sacrifice cheaper unit as more expensive gunship. This would not had radical impact on game, artilery suport is nearly dont used ability for big price of sacrificied ganships and stream of T1 scout can help better use it.

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tonight i had some kind of creative boost, so when we finish this last tweak balance and effacement all bug and cosmetic.

we can make Avatar in loby : finger up (Y) and nomads logo behind -> "I support nomads"
bronze - with bronze finger for end at least 5 nomads game (not neccesary play nomad fraction)
silver - with silvet finger for end at least 20 nomads game
gold - with gold finger, and at least 50 nomads game

more nomads symbols as avatar in loby= more ppl would know that something like that exist and try to catch higher avatar = more nomads player = more common = nomads integrate as official = happynes in galaxy


tomorow i send you screanshot with some grafic/intel bugs

[Apofenas]

There are some problems for nomads on T3. They need a long range unit to counter sniper bots. I think about changing rocket upgrade to something that supposed to couner snipers, but not that efficient versus other units. I don't know if it's bug or something, but rocked SCUs have only ~25 range, which isn't 50 like pip was saying to me. Any way, i think on changing range to 60 basicly which will get buffed to 70 when capactor is enabled. Idk about damadge or dps numbers; this needs testing.

The next thing is right arm gun. It should be synched with main gun, so it would have same range(like people buff cybran laser with standard gun upgrade).

Also there are too many presets to choose. First of all remove all presets with RAS.

Equip rocket launcher preset and remove fast combat.

Remove combat preset, since practice showed that nobody builds combatant SCU presets in main game mode. Also it's less mass efficient compare to gunslinger because it has more HP per mass, which is needed more at t3 than extra gun that even has smaller range than main gun.

Replace capactor with speed upgrade, because naval units are very fast compare to SCU basic speed.

ACU RAS split: well, i think +2000e/+10m for 110000e/3500m - RAS; +4500e/+20m for 150000e/3500m - ARAS. Need to calculate numbers and something to compare with, but you get the idea: cheaper overall, but less effective. Also cheaper RAS will allow to use weak t3 bombers(low damadge) and silly t3 gunships(low health).

[Apofenas]

This is about T3 Land balance but i put it here

T3 mobile artilery: HP 800-> 1600
yeah, Im serious..
(if too big problem then rise price to 850/900mass)

Makes sence since there are no mobile shields to cover these.

T1 scout / T3 spy plane Add artilery suport ability, not on whole visual range but on range as is visual range for units with artilery suport ability.
Why? Because some artilery units are whitout suport preatty unacurate, especialy mml, and is more logic that this feature would be on air scout when is on gunship too. and mostly because units who is going suport artilery aiming probably fast die, so is better sacrifice cheaper unit as more expensive gunship. This would not had radical impact on game, artilery suport is nearly dont used ability for big price of sacrificied ganships and stream of T1 scout can help better use it.

I don't like adding complicated features. There already is enough of them, so some people avoid nomads.

we can make Avatar in loby : finger up (Y) and nomads logo behind -> "I support nomads"
bronze - with bronze finger for end at least 5 nomads game (not neccesary play nomad fraction)
silver - with silvet finger for end at least 20 nomads game
gold - with gold finger, and at least 50 nomads game

more nomads symbols as avatar in loby= more ppl would know that something like that exist and try to catch higher avatar = more nomads player = more common = nomads integrate as official = happynes in galaxy

I was thinking about that, but the problem will be, that everybody will have those avatars...
My thoughts were: Win BO3/Lose BO5 - Bronze avatar; Win BO5/Lose BO7 - Silver avatar; Win BO7 - Gold avatar.

tomorow i send you screanshot with some grafic/intel bugs

pip was saying, that Brute is currently working on grafics.

[Ithilis_Quo]

did you read my extremly long post what i was 8 hour work on him ? probably not,

nomad SACU ras cost 800 mass and 43 000 energy and give +2mass and +400 energy. This kind of split would mean you can start on this shit RAS on end of T1 phase before you start T2 factory, and start make fast T2 air. or start make Gun upgrade with energy free.

I don't know if it's bug or something, but rocked SCUs have only ~25 range, which isn't 50 like pip was saying to me.

here is one bug, but not that kind as you think, rocket had 50 range as pip say, but sacu is stupid and go on 25range when you click on attack for no reason. you must manualy click on place and not on attack sacu start atack automatic. hope would be repair. pip know about that. range upgrade when capacitator is on is nice, idea what help fix sniper problems.
We can make if unefective against other units as sniper, when we give this bonus only with build capacitator upg, and remove other positive influence of capacitator on. so can had normal 50 range and with capacitator upg + on 75range + AOE dmg (but then he had only one misile(on second spot is capacitator) and dont take dmg on place after shot.

he next thing is right arm gun. It should be synched with main gun, so it would have same range(like people buff cybran laser with standard gun upgrade).

hmm i like function that is not sinchronised with main gun, so nomad sacu can fire on 2 objects on one time. I would be glad if it stay posible, but range rise, when upgrade advanced gun will be build would be fine, but dont know if not OP, need testing.

Replace capactor with speed upgrade, because naval units are very fast compare to SCU basic speed.

dont agree because capacitator kvalitativ rework what you probably dont read

[Ithilis_Quo]

I don't like adding complicated features. There already is enough of them,

this features is alredy in game, but today on T1/T2/T3 gunship and T2 burte tank, this feature mean when is unit with artilery suport on visual range artilery units (what is T2 mml, or T3 arbalest, or crawler too) 200% more accurate. my sugestion is bring this feature on air scout too becasue is is more intuitive cheaper and logic

Win BO3/Lose BO5 - Bronze avatar; Win BO5/Lose BO7 - Silver avatar; Win BO7 - Gold avatar

dont understand can be more concrete ?

Imho is not good point had "i support nomad" avatar based on win nomads game, then it is different kind what we dont care about how good ppl are, but about how offten thay play nomads. When everyone would had this avatars, then we would be on end stage "happynes in galaxy" already are maybe 5ppl who will get silver avatar for this mount and probably 0 for gold.
Yeah what i forget write was that this will after 30days decay. So you need had at least 50 nomads game for one mount, when you first day play 10 then next day after30d you decay on silver avatar. when you one mount dont play nothing you lose all.

[Apofenas]

did you read my extremly long post what i was 8 hour work on him ? probably not,

I did, but you know, i have my own ideas, and i write my own first, and then, i work out how they would be combined compare to others.

nomad SACU ras cost 800 mass and 43 000 energy and give +2mass and +400 energy. This kind of split would mean you can start on this shit RAS on end of T1 phase before you start T2 factory, and start make fast T2 air. or start make Gun upgrade with energy free.

This is gonna be totally unbalanced and unfair thing compare to other factions, that will have to invest a lot more resourses to get same eco outcome like "shit RAS" gives. My RAS split suggestion means, that nomad can get t3 air faster and utilize it before enemy catches him.

hmm i like function that is not sinchronised with main gun, so nomad sacu can fire on 2 objects on one time. I would be glad if it stay posible, but range rise, when upgrade advanced gun will be build would be fine, but dont know if not OP, need testing.

So this gun fires it's own targets? I remember that bullfrog had problems, where some weapons did resist to fire assigned target, idk if that was fixed or not. If this gun is the same, it sould be fixed.

Replace capactor with speed upgrade, because naval units are very fast compare to SCU basic speed.

dont agree because capacitator kvalitativ rework what you probably dont read

Replacing isn't nessesary. Speed can just be added to that preset.

this features is alredy in game, but today on T1/T2/T3 gunship and T2 burte tank, this feature mean when is unit with artilery suport on visual range artilery units (what is T2 mml, or T3 arbalest, or crawler too) 200% more accurate. my sugestion is bring this feature on air scout too becasue is is more intuitive cheaper and logic

Didn't even know about that...

already are maybe 5ppl who will get silver avatar for this mount and probably 0 for gold.

I might get a gold one. Can't really count how many games i played with nomads, but i played a lot. 22(28 if we use europe time zone) nomad games for this week. Without counting test games and rehosts of course...

[Ithilis_Quo]

This is gonna be totally unbalanced and unfair thing compare to other factions, that will have to invest a lot more resourses to get same eco outcome like "shit RAS"

I can coalcul it, so when you want to +400 energy income, you need:
- nomad miniRAS = 800/1000 mass + 40 000 energy (+2mass as a bonus)
- 20 T1 Pgen= 1500 mass + 15 000 energy (reclaim posibility as a bonus)
- 1 hydro + 15 T1 Pgen= 1285 mass + 12 080 energy
- T2 on acu + T2 Pgen= 1920 mass + 30 000 energy x 0,8 = 1536mass + 24 000energy (t2pgen take 500 not 400+T2 acu)
- T2 factory + T2 eng +T2 pgen= 2380mass + 17600energy x0,8 = 1904 + 14 080 energy (+factory and T2 eng as bonus)

The main diferences is that small RAS cost cca 2,5x more energy and 2x less mass, But in early game phase energy is same or bigger problem as mass. We can rise price from 800mass->1 000mass but when you build Pgens you can reclaim them after T2pgen and take your mass back, or when you chose for T2 acu/factory you had T2 as bonus, and is easyr for you gain more energy faster. But with this mini ras you can get first T2 bomber faster, or speed up ACU upgrade. it is not reasrce economical, but you speed up proces and can suprise

[Apofenas]

I can coalcul it, so when you want to +400 energy income, you need:
- nomad miniRAS = 800/1000 mass + 40 000 energy (+2mass as a bonus)
- 20 T1 Pgen= 1500 mass + 15 000 energy (reclaim posibility as a bonus)
- 1 hydro + 15 T1 Pgen= 1285 mass + 12 080 energy
- T2 on acu + T2 Pgen= 1920 mass + 30 000 energy x 0,8 = 1536mass + 24 000energy (t2pgen take 500 not 400+T2 acu)
- T2 factory + T2 eng +T2 pgen= 2380mass + 17600energy x0,8 = 1904 + 14 080 energy (+factory and T2 eng as bonus)

The main diferences is that small RAS cost cca 2,5x more energy and 2x less mass, But in early game phase energy is same or bigger problem as mass. We can rise price from 800mass->1 000mass but when you build Pgens you can reclaim them after T2pgen and take your mass back, or when you chose for T2 acu/factory you had T2 as bonus, and is easyr for you gain more energy faster. But with this mini ras you can get first T2 bomber faster, or speed up ACU upgrade. it is not reasrce economical, but you speed up proces and can suprise

Its cost is real problem. ~40ke is easily enough to get very quickly even on winter duel(i speak of uef nano rush as an example). It is mass cost efficient and power isn't a big deal to get. Yes, if it would be used for t2 air rush, it would be fine, but if it would be used in other purposes? For example somebody gets such RAS and he already can take even more mass back from reclaiming pgens and that's it! He avoids punishment for ecoing because he gets all that mass back; he has no pgens to be killed; gets extra mass income.

That's the problem. Itt's not that hard to get for 1 person but 4 persons will get that really quickly. In team games that would be hardly abused(for example by known for tricky strategies clan) where 4 people build invest their power in each other 1 by 1 to get that mass efficient power boosts and then get more mass back.

As i said it's unfair and unbalanced thing.