T1 Bomber is OP

[SpinDrah]

What if LAND factories start with built-in radar? Non-uprgadable, of course.
Better than a scout, worse than a 'true' radar.
(...Somehow like the bomber?)

What if we had Upgrades for LandFac? Like AA,Radar,Shield,And Arty!!!!!

[thygrrr]

[Blue]

What if we had Upgrades for LandFac? Like AA,Radar,Shield,And Arty!!!!!

For the simple task of helping you organize a better defense against bomber first all those are overkill (especially the arty).

[uberge3k]

It appears that several people's Sarcasm Detectors need recalibrating.

[Doompants]

Besides.. that stuff is better left for something like a sequel to SupCom... if they ever make one.

[SpinDrah]

Besides.. that stuff is better left for something like a sequel to SupCom... if they ever make one.

I think they did make a sequel to SupCom, I wonder if it has any of that stuff in it?

[noobymcnoobcake]

T1 bomber is fine as long as it is not the first unit made. Stop commander from being able to build air factories and it will be fine.

[Roscoe]

I agree that the bomber is relatively ballenced on the whole, the only problem is the opening. It does seem difficult to change the opening without changing the unit however, so if the unit is changed the following could be considered:
1: increase both cost and effectiveness of t1 bomber. You still get the same bang for your buck, it just happens a bit later in the game.
2: remove radar from bomber, have people use air scouts for radar. Honestly a t1 bomber with radar feels like a t1 arty with radar. Seems kinda silly right?
3: increase build time of bomber and only slightly increase it's effectiveness. It would make it slightly more cost effective in general but wouldn't be as strong a first opener.

Now let us consider ways to adjust the viability of the opening without changing the unit:
1: (already mentioned) increase the cost or build time of airfac a bit
2: (already mentioned) make acu unable to initiate build on airfac (unless it has a tech upgrade)
3: reduce the damage engineers take from t1 bombers
4: give ACU's a minor aa weapon, about as strong as a t1 moble aa
5: make ints a better counter to t1 bomber, maybe cheaper and/or radar that only sees flying units

Just some thoughts. I would kind of like to see acu's have a minor aa weapon, might be interesting to see if it has any effect on ghetto gunship tactics. My hope would be that it matters only a little, meaning that ghetto gunships are still usefull in the same way but that it might need only a tiny bit more backup. But who knows.

Really the best thing to do when imballence is present is to abuse it to excess, proving the point that it needs a fix. If people who loose to bomber first builds complain then people don't listen to much, loosers always complain about things that kill them. If everyone does it all the time then it will be clear that something needs to be done.

[Ze_PilOt]

First, is there really a problem ?

On my last 10 ranked games, 1 was opened with bomber first.
On my last 50 ranked games, I never lost because of bomber first. At worst, the bomber first made my opponent even in term of land occupation.

A valid test would be :

1. You lose to bomber first.
2. You do the same match, same map, your opponent can't go bomber first. You either go land or bomber first and see if you win

Repeat 2. 3 times, with random decisions between bomber first or not.

Then, swap again, you can't do bomber first, your opponent can pick randomly.

Note all the results and post them with the replays.

[Roscoe]

WTF...
Do you mean to suggest we actually investigate this rather than yell out our opinion? That sounds suspiciously like science. Common, are we really going to try to learn something?

In all seriousness though, great idea! We should make sure we get some input from noobs and mid range players, as well as top ranked.