Thoughts on the Ranked Map Pool

[TheStrategist]

+1 on snowy triangle removal.

[thygrrr]

I like Snowy Triangle.

What I don't like is so many 3 and 4 and even 6 player maps in 1v1 without randomized starting positions (what's the point?)

I'd rather focus exclusively on 1v1 maps for 1v1 ladder, maybe even custom maps.

(custom maps would have to be very high quality and not eyesores like that Chaos 3v3 map, though that'd not be eligible for ladder mathches anyway)

[Pavese]

I agree on Varga Pass that is atm not playable (imagine double bomber first).

On the other hand you want to remove alot of macro map like Roanoke or Vya-Protectorate. I disagree.


Imo these maps should be replaced or just removed:

Winter Duel: way to small and cybran stalemate
Varga Pass: bomberfirst f*** up
Four-Corner: agree on the factino biase
Snowy Triangel: way to close spawn Base-trade commander rush scenario gg

Things that could be replaced:

Sentry Point: to close spawn imo
Fields Of Isis: only 2 ways of attack and 1 easy to defend way to the main. could be replaced with the "great" isis that has 4 attack routes and 3 ways into the main.

[Ze_PilOt]

Can you post replay evidences of the maps broken by bomber first ?

The map list is like it is because in a perfect balanced game, no map should be an advantage for any faction. It help us "debug" imbalances.

Again : Beta.

[thygrrr]

Why is Varga Pass any more prone to bombers than Williamson's Bridge or Theta Passage?

And double bomber first is just a mutually assured destruction kind of deal, you better build Interceptor first if you want the upper hand. :]

Strategies evolve.

[Pavese]

Why is Varga Pass any more prone to bombers than Williamson's Bridge or Theta Passage?

And double bomber first is just a mutually assured destruction kind of deal, you better build Interceptor first if you want the upper hand. :]

Strategies evolve.

Interceptor first doesnt work because they cost to much energy (reasons why ppl want bomber first to go away by making them cost more e). Building ceptor second would cost you 90 e/s but with a bomber first opener you have 0 energy in store and +50 income (double pgen + 10 commander). A cetpor costs 90 energy/s IIRC.

Not to mention you can snipe energy very easy with a double drop and win the game then and there.


Varga Pass has one mass extractor on spawn location, making it a slow start to begin with. Its not the maps fault that someone thought an unscoutable harassment was a good idea. But it's just a deathblow if you dont go bomber first on this map, get your expanding engis killed and then have to pump mass into AAs (remeber only mass extractor?) while your opponent can expand freely.

I can't show you a proper replay because you patched and i didn't played it, but i saw tiptushi defeat Captainchlorgas with UEF bomber first just yesterday (FYI the worst bomber first). That game was GG 2 minutes into the game as it was impossible for Chlor to catch up.


If both go bomber first, i imagine it will be the same scenario as Triangle where it comes down to who could build more hidden stuff while your base is dieing.




If Bomber first gets a fix (energy cost) then varga is a medicore map with a slow start but with possibility for a GG after that.

[X-Peri-MENTAL]

I agree with most of the comments here, I am dreading getting a massive map on a ranked 1v1, an expected nice quick game could turn out to be an hour long or longer which I might not have time for . I think the last GPGnet map rotation had one massive map ‘Shards’ and that was my ‘Thumbs Down’ choice.

Probably off-topic, but as it got mentioned, I was discussing bomber rush at the beginning of a game with a friend and the only counter I can see is to go bomber rush yourself and try and inflict the same damage as your opponent does to you to maintain a status quo until you get an interceptor. If you went interceptor first and he didn’t go for the bomber then you have effectively wasted your early resources on something that is not useful (yet) where your opponent might have gone engineers and now has a better economy than you. If you went bomber and he didn’t then you can get the upper hand. Maybe a game rule could be that Air Factories can only be built after a factory of another type is built first? The idea probably couldn’t be implemented in code as it is probably core code but a gentleman’s agreement might work. That said I badly need to practice my bomber mico.

[Ze_PilOt]

Did you tried AA ?

[uberge3k]

Build an extra pgen to go int-first if you really despise all kinds of micro enough to forgo any form of land based counter...

Regarding the map pool; I actually like all the maps. Snowey Triangle and Winter Duel are fairly one-dimensional in my opinion; but other than that there's a great variety. I would eventually like to see some awesome custom maps there too, such as Voi Vittue.

Anaryl: Varga is fine. If it's so broken it should be trivial to provide replays...

[MAG]

First: Awesome job zep, thank you for that. It wont be my last donation for this project.

But.. sorry dude.. this first bomber thingy u made (mostly influenced by those TAG guys, i guess) is shit. the costs ints/bomber r a joke..
Thats the reason i dont play ladder anymore.