The great and powerful Tempest

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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby noobymcnoobcake » 05 May 2012, 11:22

Increase the tempest hp from 35k to 55k. Nobody can and say it will be op. then leave it for a while and it can be changed more if needed.
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby ElCapitan » 05 May 2012, 11:53

noobymcnoobcake wrote:Increase the tempest hp from 35k to 55k. Nobody can and say it will be op. then leave it for a while and it can be changed more if needed.


I don't think that's the right way to go. It would easily kill an Atlantis this way but still be so ridiculous expensive there's no reason to ever build one.
Part of that problem is the current T3 BSes.
I think reducing its price by around 1/3 would be more in line with the idea of making it viable.

In my opinion it is some kind of the water-Fatboy.
Produces units of the same kind, decend defense (torp defense, surbmersible) [where fatboy has its shield], bad HP, high range weapons.
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby Plasma_Wolf » 05 May 2012, 13:59

I agree with noobytoolongofanamecake, but the tempest should have the HP up to 70K. Plain and simple. The cost increase of the T3 fleet has already been discussed and kind of approved of (Though an increase to the old value would be too much). This will put the tempest back into the "useful" zone. Also because of the fact that it does have a factory, as you just pointed out.
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby Crayfish » 05 May 2012, 16:41

Gyle wrote:If you wanna focus on an injustice with the experimentals you gotta give it to Sera and UEF. UEF still lacking a punch bot to lead with in an attack and Sera is the only race not to have an experimental with some epic production capability.


I kind of like that the factions are diverse in that way at T4, it would be pretty boring to have every race have a supersub, megabot etc.. Its not like UEF really lack a punch with Percys + Shields anyway, and the Fatboy is actualy more usefull in alot of situations than a short range bot.
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby ElCapitan » 05 May 2012, 19:19

Plasma_Wolf wrote:I agree with noobytoolongofanamecake, but the tempest should have the HP up to 70K. Plain and simple. The cost increase of the T3 fleet has already been discussed and kind of approved of (Though an increase to the old value would be too much). This will put the tempest back into the "useful" zone. Also because of the fact that it does have a factory, as you just pointed out.


I suppose that would put it in line with the 'Battleship' moniker and warrant its pricetag.
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby Plasma_Wolf » 05 May 2012, 22:40

Well, it is an experimental battleship for a reason, so I'd say it really should be a more powerful version of the T3 battleship. Add to that the extra perk of constructing a T2 navy and I think you're there.

However, the cost reduction you proposed gives somewhat the same effect, along with the big damage for a shot and the high range it already has.

I may also not have clarified myself enough (if at all) on the "fatboy" role you propose. I agree with that role completely, it can build a T2 naval force and that should remain so (perhaps add the strategic missile sub to it because that unit looks small enough to fit in the construction area). I think everyone agrees on that part (note that the build power of this unit is 240 where that of the fatboy is 180 so it does build quick enough). That should be maintained I think. The thing that is missing is the battleship role and that should be restored with a HP bonus (damage is really good now).

About the price: it is extremely expensive but the T3 naval is too cheap. Fix that pricetag first and then review the price of the Tempest.
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby Veta » 06 May 2012, 10:18

Tempest and Aeon T3 Battleship need buffs relative to other navy - T3 Aeon Battleship is a joke and the Tempest isn't viable whatsoever when 1 UEF Battleship can beat it 1v1.

Double Tempest HP, buff it somehow, but don't lower cost - keep it experimental in tier!. And then T3 Navy in general needs to be repurposed, but the main battleships need rebalancing as well.
FA is a game of economic micromanagement (what StarCraft players mistakenly call 'macro') and tactical trumping (e.g. T2 PD countering T1 Spam).
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby Jace » 06 May 2012, 10:27

Veta wrote:Tempest and Aeon T3 Battleship need buffs relative to other navy - T3 Aeon Battleship is a joke and the Tempest isn't viable whatsoever when 1 UEF Battleship can beat it 1v1.


lol?
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby Veta » 06 May 2012, 11:32

Jace wrote:
Veta wrote:Tempest and Aeon T3 Battleship need buffs relative to other navy - T3 Aeon Battleship is a joke and the Tempest isn't viable whatsoever when 1 UEF Battleship can beat it 1v1.


lol?

T3 navy is messed up right now, but relative to the UEF Battleship or even those of other factions the Aeon BS really needs calibrating (not saying everyone should have an equivalent battleship) it's just awkward right now. Also the Tempest should stay a clearly XP/T4 unit but it should just be repurposed/buffed relative to other navy. And as far as Atlantis vs Tempest balance goes, maybe the Atlantis does need retuning too, right now it's only used as a super sub right?

Edit: I'm just getting back into FA so if I'm missing something about naval balance disregard what I'm saying
FA is a game of economic micromanagement (what StarCraft players mistakenly call 'macro') and tactical trumping (e.g. T2 PD countering T1 Spam).
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Re: The great and powerful Tempest

Postby noobymcnoobcake » 07 May 2012, 10:58

Atlantis cost 50 mass/buildtime. Kennels are 35. No it doe no need buff because on top of that you get a very powerful submarine and 150 air staging platforms.

Aeon T3 battleship is more like the UEF battlecruiser as an anti ship unit. Fast (3.6 speed instead of summits 2.5), Low range(100 instead of 128 or 150), high DPS and low trajectory. The missile ship is the anti base unit. It is the worst battleship and I would like to make it cheaper than the other battleships as it does not fill the same role.
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