Another suggestion for changing the Mercy: The Mercy II

[MushrooMars]

Please, hear me out, and if not, at least read the first two paragraphs.

Mercy II: T2 Guided Smart-Bomb:

Functional Description: The Mercy II T2 Guided Smart Bomb fills a different roll than it's previous, purpose-built ancestor. Rather then firing a weapon directed at a single target, this missile explodes high in the air upon reaching it's destination, releasing many(10-15) small projectiles which lock onto random targets within the missile's scan(attack) radius. These projectiles do grievous damage(400-600 damage, depending on amount of projectiles), capable of destroying even the most heavily armored units. Multiple projectiles can hit the same target.

Explanation: The Mercy II is designed for more widespread strikes, with the focus of "Siege and overwhelming shields." Unlike the Mercy, even if it is ordered to attack a specific target, there is only a chance the projectiles will hit that target, instead of a sure-fire hit. This makes it less likely to be used to snipe an ACU, HOWEVER... If the ACU is the only unit within the Merciless' attack radius, all the shots will hit it, most likely killing it even more efficiently than the Mercy.

The point of this weapon is to make the Mercy more feasible in open warfare, and against rushes, while still punishing those annoying upgrade-ACU-and-move-order players. To drive home the point: The Mercy II is more balanced, in that it requires more effort to destroy a well prepared commander, and less effort to destroy an idiot who runs in and rolls the dice.It also has uses OTHER than attacking commanders.

Changes in stats:
-More health(anywhere from 50hp-200hp)
-Specialized weapon script(individual projectiles lock on to various targets within attack radius, selected randomly)
-Larger acceptable detonation range(will activate weapon even if target is not directly within it's sights)
-Heavier, spread out damage. Comparable to that of a TML.
-Higher speed?

This is just my idea for balancing out the Mercy, among the sea of other balance ideas, most of them inclusive of making the Mercy do dismal amounts of damage, whereas mine simply makes the Mercy a more general-purpose weapon. I'll play with the Mercy script in the morning, any suggestions or snippets would be helpful.

Note: Ranges for suggested damage and projectile count are NOT randomly selected when the weapon fires, but are simply there for balance. 10, 600dmg projectiles are equivalant to a Tactical Missile, whereas 15 400dmg projectiles do the same amount of damage, but over a wider area.

[FunkOff]

(10-15) small projectiles ... (400-600 damage),

The mercy does 2400 damage now... you want it to do at least 4,000 and up to 9,000?

That minor point aside, this idea sounds really similar to the idea I had... basically making the 8 projectiles the mercy fires now target separate units.

[MushrooMars]

(10-15) small projectiles ... (400-600 damage),

The mercy does 2400 damage now... you want it to do at least 4,000 and up to 9,000?

That minor point aside, this idea sounds really similar to the idea I had... basically making the 8 projectiles the mercy fires now target separate units.

I saw your thread, I assumed you meant dumb projectiles, as in they are just launched in a spread.

I understand that my variant does... Excessive damage, but I of course never specified the cost. I will do some more number-crunching and research in the morning.

[Isen]

then you send the same amount of mercyes you can send now, first mercyes kill all the aa and shit, and last mercyes get the acu.

[uberge3k]

I really like this idea, because it will be so incredibly overpowered that people will beg for the good old days of the current mercy.

Multipurpose, do-everything units are really, really difficult to balance, simply due to Darwinian logic: if two units perform a similar function, one will necessarily be superior to the other, and in the context of a competitive game, that is the one which will be used while the other(s) ignored. The Mercy II will fill the role of both high-value target sniper and general purpose unit destroyer (massacre-er?), while its increased health ensures it will survive against light defenses. This means it can counter not only ACU pushes but general spam as well, not to mention being an effective shield breaker. In other words... it combines the general usefulness of the gunship, with the mercy's extreme frontloadedness, combining to create the ultimate jack of all trades weapon.

If you make it expensive/unwieldy/etc to try to balance it, so much so that it is less effective than normal tanks / gunships / etc, it will not be used.

[MushrooMars]

I really like this idea, because it will be so incredibly overpowered that people will beg for the good old days of the current mercy.

Multipurpose, do-everything units are really, really difficult to balance, simply due to Darwinian logic: if two units perform a similar function, one will necessarily be superior to the other, and in the context of a competitive game, that is the one which will be used while the other(s) ignored. The Mercy II will fill the role of both high-value target sniper and general purpose unit destroyer (massacre-er?), while its increased health ensures it will survive against light defenses. This means it can counter not only ACU pushes but general spam as well, not to mention being an effective shield breaker. In other words... it combines the general usefulness of the gunship, with the mercy's extreme frontloadedness, combining to create the ultimate jack of all trades weapon.

If you make it expensive/unwieldy/etc to try to balance it, so much so that it is less effective than normal tanks / gunships / etc, it will not be used.

Okay, when you have Mr. Mercy saying your idea is good, it's about time to balance it out a little...

250 damage per projectile
10 projectiles
10 health
Utilizes current speed

[uberge3k]

In a best-case scenario, that will let you kill 10 tanks with two mercies. Probably less due to the random factor and multiple projectiles homing in and overkilling targets, and more if the target is Auroras which would be one-shot'd.

That means you're spending 600 mass in mercies to kill 500 mass in units. In other words, it will be useless at that role. So we're left with ACU sniping again:

As for ACU sniping, as Isen said, 250 damage is enough to kill AAs. Send a couple mercies in first to effectively kill AAs, and then send the rest in to kill the ACU. They'll actually be more effective this way thanks to this "bonus" weapon, while still requiring the same number of mercies to snipe an ACU.


The final nail in the coffin is that in some scenarios (the ACU is amidst a LOT of tanks, or amongst heavy tanks, for example), what happens will be decided ENTIRELY by chance. People complain that mercy snipes, in their current form, are "lucky" - well, since the outcome of such a scenario is decided entirely by a random number generator, it's now the very definition of luck.

If it were designed to favor other targets instead of ACUs, that would not only be an armor system, but would probably nerf lategame mercy usage into uselessness, something that's already very rarely used because late-game ACUs are typically well defended (unless your enemy has a serious death wish). In effect, turning an already-niche unit into a useless unit.

[pip]

Let's use new types of units / weapons in new factions or total conversions and focus on balancing FA the way it is now. It's an interesting idea for sure, but it's much easier to balance the mercy as it is than this different version. First things first.

[FunkOff]

due to Darwinian logic: if two units perform a similar function, one will necessarily be superior to the other, and in the context of a competitive game, that is the one which will be used while the other(s) ignored.

You must really love me uber. They say mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery and here you are parroting my words as your own!

Multipurpose, do-everything units are really, really difficult to balance, simply

Your fundamental assertion is wrong, however. Multi-purpose units are very easy to balance provided they are not better at any one thing than a dedicated unit doing only that same thing. Take fighter-bombers, they can shoot air as well but that doesn't make them overpowered because they are much less efficient at it than interceptors. Take Aeon/UEF cruisers, they have short range deck guns like frigates so they can shoot other ships/hover units but that doesn't make them OP because frigates perform that function far better.

So what would a multi-locking mercy do? It would be capable both against singular targets and groups of targets, but it would be worse against groups made of tech 1 units. That's fine because gunships are good against tech 1 units. It's all balanced.

[uberge3k]

You must really love me uber. They say mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery and here you are parroting my words as your own!

So if you say that the sky is blue, and then I say somewhere else that the sky is blue, I'm mimicking you? You are not the first to have used the metaphor (in fact, I don't believe that you have) and certainly not the first to have come up with this logic, so attempting to assert that another is "mimicking" you is not only disingenuous, but supremely arrogant.

Your fundamental assertion is wrong, however. Multi-purpose units are very easy to balance provided they are not better at any one thing than a dedicated unit doing only that same thing. Take fighter-bombers, they can shoot air as well but that doesn't make them overpowered because they are much less efficient at it than interceptors.

And when was the last time you built an F/B for air control? You don't. You build it for a bomber.

Take Aeon/UEF cruisers, they have short range deck guns like frigates so they can shoot other ships/hover units but that doesn't make them OP because frigates perform that function far better.

And when did you build a cruiser to kill frigates (aside from perhaps Cybran cruisers)? You don't. You build them for their AA capabilities.