6 changes to make Seraphim as good as the others

[pip]

1) Extend both Resto fields AOE x2 (10->20) + fix behaviour bug (see bug report thread). Then it's easier to use because the units gaining benefit from it don't have to be just near the ACU (bumping / pathfinding issue that makes micro difficult) and you don't have to care about veterancy.

2) ACU chrono amplifier: give it a more reasonable cost something like 2500-3000 mass / 150000-200000 energy =(a bit more exepnsive than Aeon Chrono dampener) but not more than Cybran laser. Reminder : this weapon (4500 mass) costs currently more mass than a maser upgrade (4000 mass), but adds only 300 DPS and an AOE of 2. Maser adds 4000 DPS... No comment.

3) T2 Hover tank : modify the current weapon cycle (175 damages every 4 secs) to: 50 damages every second (almost same DPS as before, but better firing cycle).

4) T1 Sub : 7 seconds reload for the anti-torp weapon instead of 20 (!). Or leave the same poor anti torp weapon and give them 500 HP instead of 400 (for comparison, UEF sub = 600 HP, Aeon = 550 HP; Cybran = 525 HP).

5) T2 navy : allow Seraphim latest tier Sonar (T2) to move.

6) T2 Sera torp bomber weapon same as the other factions (= not vulnerable to anti-torp weapons).

6 moderate changes, no more, and Seraphim would be roughly on par with all the other factions on all the maps.
What do you think? Are these reasonable enough?

EDIT: I forgot about the t2 sonar that should be able to move since Sera has no t3 sonar able to move.
EDIT 2: I replaced Sera Destoyer HP buff by "T2 sonar being movable".

[Isen]

seraphim is already in par, and i thought that they can be slightly better on some maps.

[pip]

So you believe these changes would make Seraphim OP? Could you elaborate which ones?

[Plasma_Wolf]

FunkOff is currently working/thinking on some general naval changes. Those would already change the Seraphim destroyer. I think we should wait with the change specific for the Seraphim destroyer until the big naval change is done.

[FunkOff]

FunkOff is currently working/thinking on some general naval changes. Those would already change the Seraphim destroyer. I think we should wait with the change specific for the Seraphim destroyer until the big naval change is done.

With the naval changes I proposed, the Seraphim Destroyer would greatly buffed. It would go from being weak against T2 subs to being exceptionally effective against them. Essentially, it would be a T2 sub and destroyer mixed... so it would be a destroyer that was effective against frigates and subs together, making other destroyers it's only weakness at T2 and T3 naval.

[pip]

Well, make the list 5 changes then. Your naval overall would certainly benefit the Sera Destroyer. Just take this as a possible "quick fix" before a full overall.

[TA4Life]

Sera destroyer is not underpowered. It has a beam that you can't dodge, this makes it absolutely lethal against acu's and other destroyers(units that are often microed to dodge naval shots). As was mentioned before it is invulnerable to frigates with its diving ability.

It will lose to a cybran destroyer because of range. It will lose to a uef destroyer because of health. It may or may not lose against aeon, depending on where the aeon destroyer shoots.

If you make it equal to the other destroyers in 1v1 battles it would be by far the best destroyer because of its other abilities.

[FunkOff]

If you make it equal to the other destroyers in 1v1 battles it would be by far the best destroyer because of its other abilities.

The problem isn't that the seraphim destroyer is weak against other destroyers (which it is) but rather than the seraphim destroyer is weak against subs. It is cost-effectively beaten by T2 subs from Aeon and Cybran and cost effectively beaten by destroyers from UEF. This is because, in an attempt to balance out it's diving ability, GPG greatly nerfed its torpedo damage as compared to the other faction's. Therefore, while a submerged Seraphim destroyer can beat frigates with impunity, it can be effectively killed by subs and doubly-so by other destroyers. Above water, it fair no better vs other subs and only slightly better against other destroyers. Seraphim also has the weakest cruiser (2400 hp versus 3000 for other factions) and the weakest hover tank and torp bomber, making seraphim exceedingly weak at T2 naval.

[TA4Life]

They do however have the best t1 transport with floating arty, that when used in early naval battles have the potential to shut down the opponent's naval production.

They also have by far the best t3, with those subs(early t3) and mobile t3 shields(late t3)

[TA4Life]

Thinking of it in terms of a setons naval battle:
A player facing seraphim, who goes heavy t2 submarine is doomed to fail.

1. Submarines are vulnerable to stationary t1/t2 torpedo launchers at the factory
2. Submarines do not have the ability to bombard the shore, therefore the early naval domination does not pay off
3. t2 submarines are torn to shreds once the seraphim player gets to t3

Sera advantage: t2 sera bomber is good against t2 navy instead of the torpedo bombers.(those gunships are also pretty brutal)
Sera advantage: sera t2 floating flak solves nearly all air problems for navy

If a seraphim player faces a t2 navy made of destroyers they can use a combination of floating arty and its own destroyers to successfully counter.

If a seraphim player faces subs they retreat to the base and go t3.

If you have allowed a sera player to go t3 on you, you are basically dead.
1. If you go for an early t3 confrontation you will lose to t3 subs
2. If you go for a late t3 confrontation you will lose to t3 seraphim shields.

All this put together means that seraphim navy has to be killed by a balanced force composed of frigates(anti floating arty), t2 subs(anti sera destroyer) and cruiers/destroyers to (kill base/naval factory from distance). This has to be done in a timely fashion before t3 comes out. This is certainly possible, but a good sera player will buy themselves a lot of time with the fobo drops.