Mercies Replays.

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Re: Mercies Replays.

Postby FunkOff » 21 Jan 2012, 21:01

uberge3k wrote:- All forms of T2 flak have limited effectiveness due to their slow speed, and should only be used when they are very far ahead of the mercy's target.
- SAMs are akin to trying to defend against a LAB swarm with T3 PD.
- Interceptors are the very best counter for mercies, and can easily and cost-effectively counter them.


So if I understand you properly, you agree that all forms of T2 flak and T3 SAMs are ineffective against mercies. Further, you assert, as I noted above, that you don't think ANY kind of AA can stop mercies? So basically, an air unit that cannot be stopped by anti-air units is completely okay and not only not overpowered, but, as I quote "incredibly risky"?
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Re: Mercies Replays.

Postby uberge3k » 23 Jan 2012, 01:30

Evil_mind wrote:We've seen replays of mercies flying over t1-t2 flaks

As we have seen replays of mercies being stopped by T1 and T2 AA. We have also seen replays of gunships and drops both flying over T1-T2 AA and being stopped by it, depending on a multitude of various factors.

Evil_mind wrote:"Limited effectiveness" what the hell is that? T2 AA is the worst possible counter, I call that unreliable and ineffective counter, counter that doesn't work, unless they are WAY ahead of your ACU which is not possible on account of them being killed by the enemy.

You defined "limited effectiveness" yourself in your very next sentence sentence: if you are able to keep the flak a good ways in front of your ACU without it being killed, it is effective. Look back through the thread for the replay on meteor 4v4 - rock defended against a mercy snipe in exactly this way.

Evil_mind wrote:When you say that t1-t2 AA counters mercies, please don't forget adding that mercies need to be already scouted and/or AA should be way ahead of your ACU.

As do gunships, bombers, drops... Since scouting the things that you want to kill is a basic game mechanic, should I also include things such as "remember to select your units by dragging a box over them" and "right clicking issues an attack command" in my posts?

Since only 1 person downloaded this replay (I guess because arguing is more fun than gathering evidence..), I'll repost it in an effort to drag the thread back on topic:
mercy snipe 3.SCFAReplay
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Re: Mercies Replays.

Postby BlackFish » 24 Jan 2012, 04:01

Triple ACU Mercy death!
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24 Jan 2012 01-35 lastGame.SCFAReplay
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Re: Mercies Replays.

Postby uberge3k » 24 Jan 2012, 17:23

An excellent showing of mercies being countered, even when they shouldn't be:

12:20: a mercy is killed even though AA is behind the ACUs.

At 14:00, when the snipe happens, you'll notice that NeverRizing5on has full air superiority. And yet... his air is sitting uselessly in his base. No scouting, and no effort to save themselves when the snipe happens.

They were also pretty much dead from the dual ACU assault.
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Re: Mercies Replays.

Postby pip » 24 Jan 2012, 18:08

Since your brain seems to function differently, at least use your eyes properly. This replay is very interesting when you watch it at -10 speed, to check the units behaviour.

12:08 : The first mercy (because Green obviously don't know that mercies should be used in group and not one by one) ESCAPES 3 SHOTS from 2 t1 mobile AA units that are IN FRONT of the ACU. And the mercy actually hits the first ACU, despite these mobile AA that are in front. If there had been two mercies = GG. Then a third t1 mobile AA is put in front of both ACU.

12:14 : The second mercy is killed by 3-4 t1 mobile AA that are very much ahead of the ACU. The stationary AA that is behind the ACU effectively manages to shoot towards the mercy just a bit later, but it's normal : stationary AA has 45 range. That's precisely what would help t1 mobile AA to deal with mercy from just behind the ACU, something they have a hard time doing when they are in front.

12:19 : very randomly, the third mercy escapes 5 shots of 3 T1 mobile AA units that are just near it, and then is finally hit and dies.
If these three mercies had been sent at once, the first ACU would have died since only two were required to kill, and the first one did hit during the first mercy attack. Then every structures around would have died too and an additional mercy would have finished the second ACU.

13:18: Mirror mercy attacks. Light Blue attacks with 8 mercies. No inties above targetted ACU. The mercies strike and kill (normal).
At the same time, Green tries a second mercy strike with 2 mercies. Two mobile t1 aa are at the same level as the UEF ACU, and slightly ahead of the Seraphim ACU that is the target. These mobile AA fire at the 2 mercies, but both mercies explode before being killed.

13:19 : Green ACU explodes (killed by Light Blue mercy attack) and damages Blackfish ACU (2000 damages).
13:21 : Green's mercies kill Blackfish Seraphim ACU (4800 damages).
What's interesting is not Light Blue succesfully mercy striking with his 8 mercies. It's Green mercies managing to attack just before the 2 t1 mobile AA that are ahead of Blackfish (from the direction from which the mercies come) can shoot them down.

13:24 : Light Blue kill White ACU with a remaining mercy he didn't use against Green. Nothing interesting here. White was dead anyway.

Of course, -10 speed and careful watching are necessary to get interesting data from this replay. I needed to watch it 3 times.
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