"Mercies" are too good!

[Lu_Xun_17]

let's buff the mercy !!!

[Evil_mind]

That being said, I'm sure the mercies wouldn't go through 10 t1 aa, 280 mass .

7 t2, 4 t1 stationary flaks in front of acu, mercies get through. I could add even more flaks or some interceptors but they would also get distracted by my air. Thats why i'm saying that safe acu should not get killed with mercies

For example, why fire beetles (or any other unit) should be countered by t1-t2 pd's in front of acu? I say, let them make ignore defences, just like mercies...

[-_V_-]

The problem is that they're too good, they're flying over flaks and killing acu's that are safe behind tons of flaks.

I guess it wasn't behing enough.

Nerfing range would never make them useless, careless acu's will still die, probably even flaks BEHIND acu would not save from mercy snipe. But flaks in front of him should do what they're supposed to

Did you miss the t1 bomber, the t2 fb, the strat bomber releasing their bomb prior of being shot down by their direct land counter ? It happens all the time.


It's funny that when it comes to mercies , or anything air related you guys expect counter units to hit all the time. I mean have you played FA ? land miss, naval miss, air miss ... It's a sim game with ballistics and stuff. Seriously the mercies are the easiest air snipe to dodge compared to other methods. You don't get several passes in air groups, or over defenses. ONE shot and only one.

[Lu_Xun_17]

hahaha i can't stop laughing here

-Ubergeek in september:
"Oh i will play aeon and show to the world how aeon are imba with mercies and auroras!!"


-Ubergeek in october:
"Ohh finally i still do not reach top10 so aeon are not strong enough :X"


-Ubergeek in november:
"Finally i managed to reach top5 on gpgnet dead for ages ranked, but with uef! but at least mercies are too good"


-Ubergeek today:
this huge forum post ^^





Mercies are a little imba in 1vs1 (yes they are) and they are definitly destroying the gameplay in 3vs3, 4v4, ....
fighting with a commander is one of the funniest things to do in this game, and it's worthless in teamgame, because of fearing the mercies from any of the 6 ennemies of the map.


@ evil mind : You really can overcharge mercies?

[-_V_-]

That being said, I'm sure the mercies wouldn't go through 10 t1 aa, 280 mass .

7 t2, 4 t1 stationary flaks in front of acu, mercies get through. I could add even more flaks or some interceptors but they would also get distracted by my air. Thats why i'm saying that safe acu should not get killed with mercies

For example, why fire beetles (or any other unit) should be countered by t1-t2 pd's in front of acu? I say, let them make ignore defences, just like mercies...

I just watched this replay. Is that a joke ? Why should the mercies get hit since all the AA are distracted. That is just great and part of FA, one of the details that you have to appreciate in this game. Take notice that this kind of distraction if far more difficult with ints , just sayin

Now you can tell me it's hard to "micro" air while messing around with ur rambo commander. Well too bad for you. Hardly makes mercies OP.

If you can do the same test, and a large part of the mercies go through the defenses without them being intentionally distracted , well you may convince me.

[Ze_PilOt]

You've just proved that tactics works in FA.
You can do the same with firebeetle : Throw some land scout, try to get behind the PDs (requires some micro to avoid shots), wait for them to turn, then send the firebeetle.
Or with t3 bombers.
Or fighter/bombers.
Or whatever.

If you see a bunch of *insert any unit* trying to distract your *insert any defense*, you should get ready to manually aim the real danger.

[uberge3k]

I'm the first to admit that I've changed my opinions about mercies after trying them for myself.

I initially thought they were OP. I tried to abuse them. I tried to see how I could defend myself from them.

After doing so, I've come to the conclusion that players who are much better than myself (rock, raging, LV, remmy, etc) had already came to: mercies are not OP.

hahaha i can't stop laughing here

-Ubergeek in september:
"Oh i will play aeon and show to the world how aeon are imba with mercies and auroras!!"

I believed they were slightly too strong. I set out to prove or disprove this by exclusively playing Aeon. It turns out that mercies aren't quite the I-win button people think they are, and I changed my opinion accordingly.

-Ubergeek in october:
"Ohh finally i still do not reach top10 so aeon are not strong enough :X"

-Ubergeek in november:
"Finally i managed to reach top5 on gpgnet dead for ages ranked, but with uef! but at least mercies are too good"

I did reach #5 playing nothing but Aeon. I only switched to UEF after reaching that goal.

Ranked being dead does not change the fact that I still had to get through voodoo and others to do so.. you're calling great players like voodoo a noob?

[uberge3k]

You've just proved that tactics works in FA.
You can do the same with firebeetle : Throw some land scout, try to get behind the PDs (requires some micro to avoid shots), wait for them to turn, then send the firebeetle.
Or with t3 bombers.
Or fighter/bombers.
Or whatever.

If you see a bunch of *insert any unit* trying to distract your *insert any defense*, you should get ready to manually aim the real danger.

QFT.

Since, at this point, the "pro mercy nerf" group has been doing little but posting their opinions and anecdotes, cherry-picking apart my rebuttals of them, and not addressing the real underlying issues, I'll reiterate it:

If you believe mercies are so imba, why don't you win every game with them and prove it?

If you can't do so, but is instead a more vague and gray "well I think they're too good", then that's a terrible way to balance something. Balance should be done based on empirical evidence, not the vague opinions of a vocal minority.

If your only concern is that flak "doesn't counter them" , and that AA "doesn't stop them without micro" (both of which are only true assuming micro on the part of the attacker and no micro whatsoever on the defender, and the defender using the WRONG counters in the first place)... as Ze_PilOt, myself, and others have proven: mercies behave exactly the same as any other air unit. If you want to nerf mercies to stop that behavior, then we should necessarily change it for gunships, bombers, TML, etc... and that's just ridiculous.

[Ze_PilOt]

What I don't understand is that mercies were not changed since 3599, except fuel (and we can agree that is not the "problem" here).
Neither flaks or any AA.

So why nobody complained about them for, what, three years, and all of a sudden it's a big nightmare ?

Maybe it's the fact that air t3 was so powerful than mercies where just skipped as a viable option ?

You should also try any kind of fighter/bombers then...

[Evil_mind]

You've just proved that tactics works in FA.
You can do the same with firebeetle : Throw some land scout, try to get behind the PDs (requires some micro to avoid shots), wait for them to turn, then send the firebeetle.
Or with t3 bombers.
Or fighter/bombers.
Or whatever.

If you see a bunch of *insert any unit* trying to distract your *insert any defense*, you should get ready to manually aim the real danger.

Will that trick with firebeetles ever work in actual game? I seriously doubt. But mercy ignoring defenses happen very often, there are minimum 2-4 replays proving that. So no, firebeetles would never get acu behind t1-t2 turrets.

T3 strat bomber is huge mass investment, T2 bomber attacks can be dodged, mercies cant. They should not kill safely hidden acu behind flaks.

If you believe mercies are so imba, why don't you win every game with them and prove it?

How many times should I repeat, that mercies are NOT imbalanced to that point, so you can get 100% win rate. They. Are. Too. Good. Their counter - aa - should actually be able to counter them, right now they can be only countered by mercies, but not flaks.

If you can't do so, but is instead a more vague and gray "well I think they're too good", then that's a terrible way to balance something. Balance should be done based on empirical evidence, not the vague opinions of a vocal minority.

Mercies fly over flaks - thats a fact, not an assumption, based on game experience. It happens alot and it doesn't look right, safe ACU should not get killed like that. Why gunships cant completely ignore flaks, or t2 bombers, or any t2 land unit cant ignore t2 pd (except missile launchers, their counter).

If your only concern is that flak "doesn't counter them" , and that AA "doesn't stop them without micro" (both of which are only true assuming micro on the part of the attacker and no micro whatsoever on the defender, and the defender using the WRONG counters in the first place)...

Micro is required everywhere, noone said that we want mercies to be countered with 0 micro. Its the huge amount of micro required is the problem, right now as you said, you need constant scouting, always keep an eye on your acu, flaks as we learned are useless, get air near your acu, distinguish mercies from any other air on radar and so on.

And please check out ShadowKnight's last post, he explains it way better than I do

What I don't understand is that mercies were not changed since 3599, except fuel (and we can agree that is not the "problem" here).
Neither flaks or any AA.

So why nobody complained about them for, what, three years, and all of a sudden it's a big nightmare ?

Maybe it's the fact that air t3 was so powerful than mercies where just skipped as a viable option ?

You should also try any kind of fighter/bombers then...

I dont know, I started playing again just recently. In tunngle people didn't play on "assassination" mode, so losing acu was no big deal. On gpgnet I played just a little and only 1v1. And the problem with mercies really sticks out in teamgames with assassination