Only land factories can build engineers

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Re: Only land factories can build engineers

Postby Plasma_Wolf » 26 Oct 2011, 21:42

-_V_- wrote:Are you sure that's possible ? MY guess is that the buildrate if kinda fixed for one structure, unless the tech level evolves ofc


It is but if you decrease the build power by 10% to have engineers at T1 being built 10% slower, you can also decrease the build power cost of the other units by 10% to compensate for that. (The build power cost compared to the mass cost is what determines how much mass per second is used on constructing the unit or building)
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Re: Only land factories can build engineers

Postby uberge3k » 27 Oct 2011, 13:50

It has already been established that bombers do not need a nerf.

It has also already been established that bomber first is only "bad and wrong and OP and gamebreaking and other inflated negative adjectives" when the disparity of skill level between the two opponents is sufficiently high. In other words, that bomber first is not an issue.

This change, while "simple" on the surface and seemingly innocuous, has many and far reaching consequences, a few of which being:

- Air first is even less viable than it already is. That reduces strategic diversity for no apparent reason other than to slow the defeat of a noob by a pro for a few more minutes, which is an absurd way to balance the game.

- Naval and air heavy maps are now dramatically changed, as you need even more land facs than before to spam engineers for increased build power, resulting in a net nerf to both naval and air where they were previously balanced just fine. For example, when you now build a naval factory, you can no longer build engineers to assist it, meaning increased build and travel time while your now-needed land facs produce their engineers and move them to the target factory.

- Removal of strategic options to fix a problem that doesn't need fixing. There is no reason to remove T1 engineers other than several people complain about air first, and since support could not be rallied to nerf bombers, this is a roundabout attempt at accomplishing the same goal.

Aside from attempting to nerf air first builds, what is your reasoning for this change? If there is no other valid reason, then I believe the topic has already been sufficiently covered in previous threads.
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Re: Only land factories can build engineers

Postby -_V_- » 27 Oct 2011, 13:55

FunkOff wrote:second, it makes sense because engineers are land units.

It's kinda true, but I take TA as a reference. all type of factories had their own engineering units.

The shipyard could make ships that could build, same for the hovercraft factory, the air fac could make engineering planes...


Maybe add some new engineering unit ?
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Re: Only land factories can build engineers

Postby Ze_PilOt » 27 Oct 2011, 13:57

This is done in experimental wars by the way.
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Re: Only land factories can build engineers

Postby ZLO_RD » 27 Oct 2011, 14:10

Do not like D:
Since there are "paradice" and "four corners" in ranked map pool, cybran and uef may not need land factories at all.
And it is just not good, this change will be too big :!:
Airfac producing ingeners slower then landfacs.
may be there is a problem that you don't like and want fix it, but please find other way
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Re: Only land factories can build engineers

Postby noobymcnoobcake » 27 Oct 2011, 14:17

to nerf air first builds how about slight increase in t1 bommber E cost? so you need 3 pgens instead of two. As said in other topics removal of bomber radar would help massivley. An early bommber can kill all your expantion engineers and when it comes under aa fire it flys off. It can be very hard to counter. Even if it gets shot down its probaly killed 3 of your enigneers anyway and payed itself back.
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Re: Only land factories can build engineers

Postby FunkOff » 27 Oct 2011, 17:16

uberge3k wrote:It has already been established that bombers do not need a nerf.


I disagree with your premise.
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Re: Only land factories can build engineers

Postby TAG_ROCK » 29 Oct 2011, 21:50

I dont think bombers need a nerf either.

I agree though, in making the air factory to build FLYING engineers like in TA, the nearer the game is to TA the happier I am.

Even if it means the cost of the flying engineer more costly than the land one. :) :) :) :) :)

I am also of the idea that air in general has to much HP cept the bomber.

Check this post:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=329
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