Considering the price of Game-Enders

[Treble]

Paragon is the only true game-ending device. Build as many Salvations as you need.

You're better off building T3 arty then building Mavor or Scathis. You can put increasing amounts of pressure on your opponents. Three dukes actually do more damage/second (1650 to 1500) than a Mavor, and cost less 270k to 299k.

Scathis has high damage and good range but you wont be precise with it.

Yolona Oss is awesome, but also stupid. If you as Seraphim built a YO and your opponent as Aeon built a Paragon, you are screwed. He builds 10 SMD before you can deplete is anti-nuke reserves and then he builds Salvations and there is nothing you can do.

This happened to me yesterday in an FFA. I lost as Seraphim against an Aeon opponent with a Paragon. My YO couldnt get enough nukes in the air quickly enough before he had 2 Salvations and 15 GCs hitting me.

There should not be a hard-counter to a game-ender. I say buff the Mavor, Scathis and YO.

Maybe YO should have every SMD in range fire a missile at it.It wouldnt matter how many SMD you build as each one would fire an anti-nuke at the YO each time. Then you could last for at least 7 shots probably a few more as the missiles rebuild, but you could not hold it off indefinitely. Your base would still hold out longer than against Salvations or Scathis/Mavor.

[lebensnebel]

So, summary of my idea:
Mavor/Scathis: -33% cost, +33% DPS
All T3 heavy arty: -50% cost
Image

Funk, you really don't like the 5% rule, right? I still think it's a good idea. Stop ignoring it .

Regarding balance, as already has been said, the paragon only gives you ressources not build power. If two player build game enders and finish around the same time, the one building a paragon looses. You either need to be able to stall long enough to bring it to work or be in a big team game and sacrifice an ally or two.
That's why it needs to be cheaper than the other game enders.

[Ze_PilOt]

I think that the game enders falls in the "never used" units category

[FunkOff]

So, summary of my idea:
Mavor/Scathis: -33% cost, +33% DPS
All T3 heavy arty: -50% cost
Image

Funk, you really don't like the 5% rule, right? I still think it's a good idea. Stop ignoring it .

Regarding balance, as already has been said, the paragon only gives you ressources not build power. If two player build game enders and finish around the same time, the one building a paragon looses. You either need to be able to stall long enough to bring it to work or be in a big team game and sacrifice an ally or two.
That's why it needs to be cheaper than the other game enders.

The 5% rule is unprecedented, unfounded and self-defeating. 5% is so small, you can never prove that it would be useful.

[Karottenrambo]

All gameenders together are propably <5% of all units, so the 5%-rule is not broken!

[-_V_-]

Why are you even talking about the balance of those very particular mega mega units ? I think that if you let your opponent build it, you deserve a nice explosion. Don't nerf them.

I don't think anybody here has suggested a nerf?

I took what Kryo and Karotten said for a disguised request for nerf , as in "cheaper light game enders"

[Karottenrambo]

We did not said "Make them worse! Doeh!".
But cheaper and less strong, so that you actually see them in games would be a beginning.

Imo:
Currently all gameenders are more or less the same, thats boring.
Do we even even need a "classic" gameender? Every faction has already a "bombard-the-enemy-to-death"-unit: t3 artillery. Another very expensive unit, that does the same job just better is nonsense redundancy.

Scathis and Salvation for example could be very interesting fancy units, but their potential is wasted with the gameender concept. :/

[Batmansrueckkehr]

I think funk is right! also with the values of decreasing the costs of t3 stat arty.

but furthermore i would also change the uef sat - as it is now it is useless. the dmg should be at least 2x (150 dps at the moment) and the vision radius should be increased too maybe also 2x or even 3x as the current. so you can really use it as defense weapon vs t3 bots/ships or deal some dmg vs t4s etc. but you cant beat any stat shield with it - but it still works as spy eye where you can see if the opponent gets a game ender, massive nukes, tele laser.. etc. it would be really a fun toy. and in that stage of the game it would not be op - it is still very expensive and as mentioned before 2 stat shields can defend pretty good vs it so it wont rape ur base.

[Kekouse]

I never built one and I'm playing since the release of FA.
First there is a balance problem. The Seraphim and Aeon ones are REAL gameenders. The Cybran is meh at best and the UEF ones are crap (The Sat does not deal enough DPS ans the arty is crap).
Second there is a problem of redundancy. You can build 3 T3 artys for the cost of one T4 game-ender. If you are Cybran or UEF there is no need to build one T4...T3 have better DPS and the opponent needs to snipe 3 buildings instead of one.

For myself I would do both. Nerf the cost to around 200K mass (2 T3 artys) and buff the damage. They are GAME-ENDERS. They should end games.
The Aeon one is ok, the Seraphim one could "maybe" be more resistant to SMD but it's still ok.
The Mavor should be reverted to the Vanilla one. MASSIVE damage per shell with pinpoint accuracy.
The Scathis should have the same Dps as the vanilla Mavor but with spread. You cannot snipe the com but you will wreck his base in no time.
As for the Uef-Sat. Buff the vision. So the Uef have an Intel-focused experimental that can harass mexes. Not a game-ender (costing "only 40K" it should not be) but at least used like the Eye of Rhianne.

Then we have the same problem for T3 Arty. 100K mass for this tiny DPS is way too much. I never built one...for the price of 4 Monkeys, the choice is easy.
I would do the same as for T2 artys.
-Either leave the price but reduce the spread and buff the DPS. It costs but it works.
-Or reduce the price heavily and leave the DPS and spread. It's cheap but the "quality" is also meh.

In FA all arty (except the mobile ones) have the same problem. It's expensive, have massive spread, long reload time and a non-competitive DPS.
Results?
Nobody builds them. And if you are forced to do so (naval that harass your coast), you cry because of their ineffectiveness.
(Having 3 T2 artys and seeing them struggle to destroy ONE destroyer....it's kinda depressing)

[TA4Life]

Recipe for winning an arty standoff. This has been tested hundreds of times on thermo.

Most important aspect of t3 arty is the accuracy, where aeon t3 has a significant advantage. (cybran t3 is almost useless in comparison)

If you can get uef for kennels and seraphim for shields, do it.

Rush t3 aeon arty, with you aeon eye spying the whole time, while you are building. You will be able to put pressure on your opponent while they still don't have shields and force them to begin spamming shields all over. They are likely to be able to defend, however you will progressively put more and more pressure on them as you spam more and more t3 aeon arty and FOCUS fire. Focusing fire is vastly more effective with aeon t3 arty vs any other faction.

If you haven't won after making 3 or 4 arty(they should have excellent shields all over), then it is time to switch to salvation or paragon.

Salvation is more efficient in terms of dps per mass, but in arty games, timing/focus/target choice is key. By the time you build salvation your opponents will have most of the juicy targets well defended and are likely to be bombarding you.

Hopefully this will be taken into account while choosing a new balance for t3/t4 arty etc.