t2 gunships

[Armmagedon]

i think that t2 gunships are a few OP, they can kill all t1 AA and kill spam really fast
its a really versatil unit.
and the OP thing is that in 3603 the cost is too cheap:

a t2 gunship cost
240 mass
4800 E
a t1 gunship cost
200 mass
5000 E

that don't have sense,
t2 gunships have higher dps and more hp and cost near the same that t1 gunships.

all ppl will say that flaks pwn gunships.
but gunships are more fast and you normally don't send them into flaks.

then i think that gunships should have the same cost that they had in 3603:
300 mass and 6000 E.

its a few no sense nerf all air and buff only t2 gunships

[FunkOff]

I think the gunship cost is fair as it is now, for a couple of reasons.

First, tech 1 mobile and tower AA is cost effective against gunships: Even if X gunships beats X mobile AA, you should remember that gunships cost nearly as much as 10 mobile AA and are a higher tech level.
Second, gunships can beat small numbers of mobile flak... 3 can beat 1, I think, and 6-7 can beat 2, but after that, gunships just get owned really hard. 4 mobile flak or 2 stationary flak can beat huge numbers of T2 gunships easily.
Third, the comparison to the jester really isn't fair because the Jester is tech 1, can be rushed MUCH faster than t2 air, and is a lower tech level. Besides, the Renegade is an enormous improvement over the Jester because, and this is unique to Cybran, the Renegade has AoE damage on its missile, making it easily the best T2 gunship by far... you should nerf all gunships just because the Cybran gunship is good.
Fourth, at 300 mass cost, that puts a gunship on the same level as a mercy. 2400 damage once or 65 DPS? The gunship would have to survive at least 37 seconds under fire to do as much damage as a mercy does instantly. Gunships usually don't live that long while under fire.... just 2 tech 1 mobile AA will kill a gunship in under 37 seconds (assuming the gunship is shooting something else the whole time).
Fifth, gunships are hard-countered by tech 1 ints. Going tech 2 for gunships is useless if you lose the int war in tech 2. Using gunships is an advantage you have to pay for twice... once by winning tech 1 air war, agains by teching to tech 2.

[Armmagedon]

funk nobody send gunships vs t1 AA if they don't have a high superiority number
gunships are OP cause they are fast and high hp for cost, you cant only compare dps of AA with dps of gunships.
gunships are 4 times more fast that

if you have 10 gunships and the enemy dont have many t1 stationarys AA, thing that is a waste of mass if the enemy dont attack with air, you only need kill the engies, thats really fast, and then your enemy cant spam nothing,

in the case of the enemy have AA in his base, only dont attack here and raid all,
its more fucked if the enemy is attacking you with spam cause you can spam gunships and the enemy AA is really far, and you pwn him.

flaks are not an effective counter vs gunships if your enemy isnt a noob, counter give you some type of advantage vs the enemy, flaks only are the only way for stop gunships.

you cant compare mercys and gunships, they have really different roles, you never send mercys to kill engies or other thing that dont are specific units like coms or t2 pgens(really i only see mercys attacking coms and exps), mercys dont have 1040hp, and are more slow, its like compare land kamikazes with t2 tanks, a kamikaze land do 5000 hp and cost the same that a t2 tank

respect to the jester, can find you some other unit that in less tech cost more that the high lvl one? and continue being worst.

in air wars is easy only spam air and gunships, if the enemy ints attack gunships your ints pwn them and you win the air superiority, cause a int have 280 hp and gunships 1040.

man i'm testing that in all the games yesterday, i killed really many coms with only do few of land spam, some air spam and spam gunships, and this is more easy to see in open maps with many mexes

actually a t2 gunships cost like 4 mantis, ¿how many time take t2 gunship in kill 4 mantis?have near the same hp that the 4 mantis and they are more fast and fly, spam gunships is effective in near all situations cause they are tooooooo cheap

[TAG_ROCK]

Maybe the t2 gunships need a huge HP nerf. I kinda agree with Arma. Voodoo and Koe also complained about gunships and that was their main reason they didnt play ladder games if I remember correctly.

[FunkOff]

I'll add another reason to the pile: A nerf to gunships is a nerf to UEF and Cybran (and probably seraphim too) on any maps that have water, like paradise, because T2 air is the only chance those factions have against auroras (frigates are somewhat effective... T2 amphibious tanks get pwned by auroras)

[TA4Life]

riptides absolutely rape auroras and cybran frigates rape them too.

[FunkOff]

Riptides don't rape auroras... 363 mass versus 52 mass ang 18 range against 26 range. 2 Riptides cost as much as 14 auroras and should, due to the tech difference, kill more like 20.... but that doesn't happen.

Also, frigates are rather good against auroras, but the frigates require constant micro and it can be difficult to build them seeing as they cost 300 mass apiece and, perhaps more importantly, each takes 65 seconds to build.... and you cannot defend the factories with point defenses. If you ever lose frigates, the auroras will simply over-run you.

[TA4Life]

I think you threw an extra factor of 2 in there. Riptides are faster and easily microable. 5 riptides would go through 40 auroras, but I agree it isn't a rape.

[FunkOff]

WAnt to test 5 riptides vs 40 auroras? riptides lose easily.

[Armmagedon]

I'll add another reason to the pile: A nerf to gunships is a nerf to UEF and Cybran (and probably seraphim too) on any maps that have water, like paradise, because T2 air is the only chance those factions have against auroras (frigates are somewhat effective... T2 amphibious tanks get pwned by auroras)

you dont need gunships for rape auroras, bombers do good job and frigates pwn easy auroras, and actually with that gunships i think that the thing that is really a bad tactic is spam auroras, you only need put some t1 pds and start to spam gunships and auroras will die in few time and then the aeon boy is fucked cause spent all in auroras an d they didnt do nothing and his enemy have gunships that will kill all the things that aeon guy won with the auroras