Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby -_V_- » 14 May 2012, 08:26

Well I would be quite happy to see that reverted as it was in 3599. would make the early PD a bit more easy to handle.
And basically I didn't see any reason to change it. Even though I got used to it now I still got the feeling it's a change for the sake of it, like the czar death crash for instance.
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby Jace » 14 May 2012, 10:29

SJAndrew wrote:As far as I know, the OC frequency is no different. I think it just costs much more energy (I could be wrong - I have not felt a different frequency while playing). It CAN indeed be spammed once you have e-storage. Needing to build it just means that the initial 3-4 minutes of the game actually require you to make units (a novel idea).


Don't mistake me, but it is indeed different. You have to overbuild Energy quite much in order to spam it compared to earlier. If you would go with a low Energy maximum Units build for early game you wont be able to use OC like it was possible previously.
A OC build cuts indeed quite a few units you could have otherwise. I don't say its bad to go for OC.
If you dont feel that something has changed you most like did overbuild your energy earlier.

SJAndrew wrote:The adjacency argument you cite, to me, is not compelling. The adjancency of e-storage is only profound in T3 anyway, and then you have shields etc. Early T1, build it off to the side by itself and don't wrap your hydro or whatever with it. You will be fine. I don't see anyone who is decent building EARLY e-storage adjacent to anything.


And you don't even see it in T3 phase. And thats because it wont pay off in any case. It offends me that it isn't usable to anyhting else than getting one for OC and later 2 or three more for T3Arty. And while having only so much use to have so much death damage.

SJAndrew wrote:The buildorder you need is not anymore complex or idiosyncratic than 3599. I did not play 3603 or the new FAF versions until GPG died. It took me about 5-10 games to learn how to deal with the new OC mechanic and I like it much better.

I intended that thought to new players. Who would think that OC needs a Estorage for activation. Its not listet anywhere. and actually new players can do quite some wrong with the new mechanic, as they have to learn more than one buildorder to find into the close combat gameplay.
You are right when you say that expierenced players have no problems to adapt the new concept.

SJAndrew wrote:Ultimately, the new OC mechanic and new deathnuke make early T1 much better imo. Now, you actually need tanks and support units as well as AA or air in order to trot your ACU out. This, to me, makes for a MUCH more dynamic early T1 than 3599 where you could send you ACU out naked without much consequence (on many maps).


Why you think that? the fact that OC now deals quite some damage to the commander forces you to build for it on small maps and go with weapon upgrade. If your opponent doesn't, he is dead.
Unfortunately on small maps you will need your commander at the frontline. If you dont go for OC you may have 15 or 20tanks more, but its hard to use that advantage because more units actually mean more feed to the weapon upgrade. and that advantage is eaten very fast by a commander with weaponUP.
So in the End it returns the change i thought positive of back to the forced shootout between commanders.
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby Pavese » 14 May 2012, 13:48

OC is as imba as it always was.

Adding storage and increasing cost only made it harder to spam, not weaker in its effect.
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby SJAndrew » 14 May 2012, 16:18

I see e-storage in T3 quite a bit. I wrap pgens with it and then use its primary prupose, STORAGE, for quick upgrades etc.

What I also like about the necessary e-storage is it makes for something worth protecting and woth sniping. An undefended e-storage is a great target. If you can kill it before you rush the opponent ACU, he can be helpless: another layer of tactics that was not there before.

The bottom line, to me: I see NOTHING wrong with the current e-storage/OC setup and vastly prefer it to 3599. This is after getting overrun the first couple of games in FAF and learning the new mechanic and ALSO getting killed late game by a monkey on roanoke (I would have not lost in 3599 as I could have OC'ed, in FAF I realized I did not build e-storage - lesson learned).

To me, if you don't like the new OC mechanic, it means you relied on it too much before and didn't build enough tanks.

Granted, many players issues come from the latter.
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby Jace » 14 May 2012, 16:37

SJAndrew wrote:I see e-storage in T3 quite a bit. I wrap pgens with it and then use its primary prupose, STORAGE, for quick upgrades etc.


Then you are actually wasting mass. calculate it and you will see.
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby noobymcnoobcake » 14 May 2012, 18:04

Jace wrote:
SJAndrew wrote:I see e-storage in T3 quite a bit. I wrap pgens with it and then use its primary prupose, STORAGE, for quick upgrades etc.


Then you are actually wasting mass. calculate it and you will see.

No. If you have a large E storage then you don't get so many power stalls and shields/stealth don't break because all it takes is one arty shell to kill a few shields and then the base is finished. OR those TMLS have been discovered. It can actually save you mass because you don't need such a huge E income as it smooths it out.
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby Jace » 14 May 2012, 19:01

if you aren't capable of managing your eco without stalling your power i suppose thats true. i on my part just need one storage for OC and 2more when i get t3arty
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby noobymcnoobcake » 14 May 2012, 19:19

Jace wrote:if you aren't capable of managing your eco without stalling your power i suppose thats true.

Please don't personally attack/insult people. It looks very bad on you. You could have phrased that in a non insulting way.

You don't seem to get my point. I was saying that you will need less overall power because you will waste less so therefore less mass invested in pgens and therefore saving mass.
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby SJAndrew » 14 May 2012, 20:42

noobymcnoobcake wrote:
Jace wrote:
SJAndrew wrote:I see e-storage in T3 quite a bit. I wrap pgens with it and then use its primary prupose, STORAGE, for quick upgrades etc.


Then you are actually wasting mass. calculate it and you will see.

No. If you have a large E storage then you don't get so many power stalls and shields/stealth don't break because all it takes is one arty shell to kill a few shields and then the base is finished. OR those TMLS have been discovered. It can actually save you mass because you don't need such a huge E income as it smooths it out.


This.

I use e-storage for STORAGE not production.

E-stall can be death (esp for a stealthed TML base). In pretty much all phases of the game, E is in surplus. A couple of e-storage (might as well wrap them around a pgen mid-to-late game) can be hugely important in preventing e-stall AND not wasting all of that energy.

I'm not trying to pass myself off as a pro or anything. My rating is around 1500 or so, so I'm certainly not. From my perspective as a 'decent' player is that e-storage and OC in its current form is fine.
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Re: Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

Postby Kryo » 14 May 2012, 21:43

isnt there a tool tip thing on FA? maybe post it somewhere obviously, that you need estorage buildings for oc?

fancy idea: show random tips somewhere either in FAF or the game lobby itself where this could be one (feature that could be customised in the settings)
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