bomber first replay

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Re: bomber first replay

Postby uberge3k » 26 Apr 2012, 16:51

Anaryl wrote:I find it a bit rich that you're telling players with thousands of games that they didn't know the premium opening.

Once again you seem to want it both ways. Either the experience of the other player matters or it does not.
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Re: bomber first replay

Postby uberge3k » 26 Apr 2012, 16:52

Jace wrote:Having to micro one or two Units later in the game isn't a problem.

Having the game decided by micro in the first two minutes IS a problem.


But micro deciding the game after X number of units/minutes is perfectly fine? It seems incredibly arbitrary. :|
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Re: bomber first replay

Postby AdmiralZeech » 26 Apr 2012, 17:55

uberge3k wrote:
Jace wrote:Having to micro one or two Units later in the game isn't a problem.

Having the game decided by micro in the first two minutes IS a problem.


But micro deciding the game after X number of units/minutes is perfectly fine? It seems incredibly arbitrary. :|


Not necessarily, there's a timing for things that a game designer might want to put into a game.

For example, I've always thought of the TA/Supcom Commander as an anti-tank-rush mechanic that prevents a handful of early units from shutting you down completely. (contrast to SC where 2-3 early units could camp your first production building and prevent you from getting units whilst killing off SCVs or whatever. At a beginner level, at least.)

So the effect of having a Commander unit is to delay the possibility of defeat/base assault by a certain period of time.
Similarly, by moving certain mechanics to T2 (stealth, massfabs, shields, etc) there's also a timing put in place for them.

So yeah, there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to push a certain feature or mechanic into a later stage of the game. You should argue merits case-by-case.
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Re: bomber first replay

Postby Jace » 26 Apr 2012, 17:59

No, it isn't because the more units there are, the less the benefits of micro become. Your reference to having to micro a commander before arty is useless. Because when a game has progressesd this far, you aren't forced to rely on micro and therefore using the commander in your strategy. You can play and win by superior macro and proper placement of defence too.

It is possible to rely on the commander in a progressed game, therefore you would have to use micro to keep him alive. However, in games that have progressed this far, you have the choice to not relying on micro and win the game by macro.

Thus your hypothetical "commander versus arty" only happens when someone decided to use and risk his commander on the frontline. and therefore has to pay the price of micro.
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Re: bomber first replay

Postby muzzl » 26 Apr 2012, 19:40

I agree with Jace, but I think the even bigger difference to be noted is that the commander can take a few artillary shells. More than a few. With bombers vs. engineers it's just -bam- the unit is dead, and it makes such a huge difference to the rest of the game whether or not your first engineers are safe at the start. Sure rebuilding them is an option (a necessity even), but in the same time you are rebuilding your engineers they're building more engineers, or army (which you can't build, because you have to make engineers now) to kill your new engineers again with.

I really think what they had in mind for the early game is for your first few engineers to at least be safe with your commander.

I would be in favor of Commanders having Anti-air. It wouldn't make air first useless, it would just mean your first air has to stay away from their commander. They can still hunt for unsafe expanding engineers.

Or what about changing the damage on the bombers, or the damage to engineer on them so that one bomb -almost- kills an engineer instead of one hitting it? They could still kill the undefended ones they find but it'd make a big difference to that critical moment at the start.
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