Underwater target hit by a ground weapon

[AdmiralZeech]

The situation as it stands is retarded and should be fixed, for logical and sanity reasons.

If this causes torpedo launchers to become unuseable, then thats a seperate imbalance that should be fixed.

For those arguing for the status quo, turn it around and imagine if the game shipped in the "fixed" state, and then someone comes along and proposes that you should be able to micro shots to kill subs. I dont think anyone would take it seriously. Or maybe not, from the bomber-multi-drop thread, it seems like there are people here that like little micro tricks like that.

[Kryo]

well IF its fixed, and I say if, cos I want it to stay like it is, the only possible fix is to stop splash damage to hurt things underwater, which is the most reasonable change. But make subs auto-focused would totally make sera t1- arty, t1 bombers, and a lot of other things imbalanced.

[Gowerly]

I dislike people being allergic to "micro". These are the same people that will click furiously so that their LAB wins the 1v1 fight.

Splash damage is just that. It makes the Tempest useful (although only I seem to do that).

There aren't that many units that do splash that are built in many games. Sure t1 bombers, but why are you building t1 navy if you have no air control at all? It's the "I AM GOING TO BUILD ONLY NAVY AND BE SURPRISED THAT I DIDN'T WIN WITH IT" routine.

[FunkOff]

Gowerly, you're talking like air control should be absolutely necessary for using naval forces. I don't think it should be: Naval should be able to hold its own against air.

What does that mean? Hold its own? Well, it means that equal mass in AA ships should reliably beat equal mass in air. Why beat and not match? Because naval is slower. When there are two units that cost the same and one is faster, the other should be tougher and win in a stand-up fight.

At present, it seems like too many people are still relying on air to just kill everything rather using the speed and maneuverability of air to just pick off undefended targets. If your enemy is spamming air, you can defend, at most, one or two spots with heavy AA, whereas they can attack anywhere.

[Kekouse]

2 Battleships can destroy any number of Atlantis.
Something is wrong.

[Gowerly]

Funk, in a perfect world it should be tie with.
Plus, I'm happy for the naval to LOSE vs the t2 air in that respects, as long as it's only torpedo planes. Torp planes can do nothing other than kill ships. I would like to see a t2 naval ship that can't hit land in some way.

[FunkOff]

Gowerly: The Aeon AA boat, all subs (except sms), cooper, shield boat, intel boat and all carriers (but seraphim) are useless against land, just like the torp bomber, yet they all lose to torp bombers.

[Gowerly]

Funk: You should know what I mean (and be able to read the t2 bit)
The cruiser, as the example, is incredibly good against air (as in it's the AA ship of choice) get can also destroy land units.
The torp bomber is designed to do only one thing, destroy naval or underwater units. It also can't detect stealth, so needs omni vision if it's going to detect the t2 stealth subs or anything under cybran's medusa or t3 sonar.

Also, pedantry: subs are boats, not ships.

[Sapristi]

If RS is right saying that the AOE is a cylinder, i think we should just remove the ability to shoot submerged units, as it would just be a bug. If you could fix that, then allow to target submerged units.

[AdmiralZeech]

The thing with naval vs. air is, once you are kicked out of the sea there is no way to get it back except for air, really.

There probably needs to be some way of taking back the sea via land structures and units, and only then is it safe to make air equal/weaker than sea.