Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-30T16:09:59+02:00

Deribus wrote:
What issues do you have with the proposition I made in my initial post?

I dont have problem with it, imho it will be better as it is, but still niche ability that will not bring much more new posibilities to gameplay.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 30 Mar 2020, 16:09

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-30T05:12:42+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
Yeah thats kind of true, i take this post as kind of brainstorming and yeah you are right.

But no e drain is no problem, problém is engie will need to cost a litle bit more that can mesh other think.
But you know its mather of numbers. When it owerlap 100% you can add only flat number of shield on place. It will not help much more against snipes as mobile shield.

Another idea of this kind is insta heal some HP of u its in area. But its far hsrder to code, and less significant.

What issues do you have with the proposition I made in my initial post?

Statistics: Posted by Deribus — 30 Mar 2020, 05:12

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-29T21:50:50+02:00

Yeah thats kind of true, i take this post as kind of brainstorming and yeah you are right.

But no e drain is no problem, problém is engie will need to cost a litle bit more that can mesh other think.
But you know its mather of numbers. When it owerlap 100% you can add only flat number of shield on place. It will not help much more against snipes as mobile shield.

Another idea of this kind is insta heal some HP of u its in area. But its far hsrder to code, and less significant.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 29 Mar 2020, 21:50

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-29T20:08:48+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
activate sacrifice -> engi will disappear into the place and create a static bubble shield. The shield will stay on the place until is destroyed.

I really think that would be incredibly overpowered, for all the following reasons:

Aeon would be the only faction to have shields at the T1 stage
You could win just about any com on com fight for the cost of a few engies
Any T2/T3 mex would be shielded vs TMLs
This would mean Auroras don't need to be kited anymore, just drop a few shields down and let them come to you
Aeon bases would be damn near indestructible to T2/T3 arty
Good luck trying to air snipe an ACU if they have so much as one engineer around them
Engie drops basically come with a prebuilt shield
This shield doesn't have an e drain
Since there's no unit underneath the shield, you could cover the map in them like Zerg creep and the enemy would have to stop and ground fire each one

I'm sure I could come up with more given the time but I think you can see the concept is flawed

Statistics: Posted by Deribus — 29 Mar 2020, 20:08

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-29T04:39:28+02:00

In past i got one working version that was too different so not try to do it, but can imagine that it brings new element and very aeonish faction diversity.

Throw this economic part completely and add some more flavour:

activate sacrifice -> engi will disappear into the place and create a static bubble shield. The shield will stay on the place until is destroyed.

shield stats = cca 20x mass cost, cca build range aoe:
t1 1000hp 5aoe
t2 3000hp 7,5aoe
t3 6000hp 10aoe
sac 30000 20aoe

even If its low it allow to do some tricks as cover PD with additional hp, have static tiny shields ower base. build radar invisible shielding, save stuff against tml to insta shielding ,Use engis aggressively to cower auroras...

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 29 Mar 2020, 04:39

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-29T03:53:17+02:00

techmind_ wrote:
Deribus wrote:
techmind_ wrote:The only currently useful feature of sacrifice is 'get rid of t1 engies so pathing is better at base' otherwise its too mass-inefficient.
Well that and tele GC. Hopefully this rework would make the sacrifice of an engineer useful in more situations, such as emergency-building PD or TMD.

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues/1896

Sending 2k mass sacu for 15k mass to some point is very mass inefficient.
Gc is like 30k mass, so y need to spend 15*15k = 225k mass to send gc somewhere ?
I think in reality the number is a bit lower, but still it costs a shitload of mass.
Paragon will be cheaper.

Positioning is worth it sometimes, if enemy is very turtled.

Statistics: Posted by RedX — 29 Mar 2020, 03:53

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-29T00:53:19+02:00

techmind_ wrote:
Deribus wrote:
techmind_ wrote:The only currently useful feature of sacrifice is 'get rid of t1 engies so pathing is better at base' otherwise its too mass-inefficient.
Well that and tele GC. Hopefully this rework would make the sacrifice of an engineer useful in more situations, such as emergency-building PD or TMD.

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues/1896

Sending 2k mass sacu for 15k mass to some point is very mass inefficient.
Gc is like 30k mass, so y need to spend 15*15k = 225k mass to send gc somewhere ?
I think in reality the number is a bit lower, but still it costs a shitload of mass.
Paragon will be cheaper.

Well you use ras acus so you only need 5, so total is 108k mass (includes the sacrifice and teleport cost) and you get something that will basically guarantee a kill on any target in almost all situations. It is basically a meme, anyway.

Statistics: Posted by UnorthodoxBox — 29 Mar 2020, 00:53

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-28T19:26:30+02:00

Deribus wrote:
techmind_ wrote:The only currently useful feature of sacrifice is 'get rid of t1 engies so pathing is better at base' otherwise its too mass-inefficient.
Well that and tele GC. Hopefully this rework would make the sacrifice of an engineer useful in more situations, such as emergency-building PD or TMD.

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues/1896

Sending 2k mass sacu for 15k mass to some point is very mass inefficient.
Gc is like 30k mass, so y need to spend 15*15k = 225k mass to send gc somewhere ?
I think in reality the number is a bit lower, but still it costs a shitload of mass.
Paragon will be cheaper.

Statistics: Posted by techmind_ — 28 Mar 2020, 19:26

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-28T10:15:58+02:00

techmind_ wrote:
The only currently useful feature of sacrifice is 'get rid of t1 engies so pathing is better at base' otherwise its too mass-inefficient.

Well that and tele GC. Hopefully this rework would make the sacrifice of an engineer useful in more situations, such as emergency-building PD or TMD.

Statistics: Posted by Deribus — 28 Mar 2020, 10:15

Re: Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-28T04:40:43+02:00

Deribus wrote:
The Aeon Sacrifice ability is criminally underused, and I think that's a shame since it really adds to faction diversity in an area where there otherwise is none: engineers. While I've seen that SCU sacrifice is being integrated with the Rapid Fabricator, I really don't think this will increase the use rate much.

Here is my proposed rework:

Instead of directly funneling the mass/energy cost of the unit into the structure, the unit will begin to build at 3x its usual build speed. The engineer will shed health over the course of the duration, and it can only be cancelled by the premature death of the engineer. If the unit is not killed, it dies and refunds 40% of its cost directly into storage.

For T1-T3 engineers this would last 10 seconds, allowing them to do 30 seconds worth of building before death.

For SCUs, it would be 1 second per 150 mass cost of the SCU. Which would be 19 seconds for just Rapid Fabricator and 43 seconds for RAS. This is about 33% less efficient than the Engineer numbers.

Let me know what you think! I'm especially unsure about the resources refund, but I thought getting 40% of a RAS com back after a 43 second long channeled ability shouldn't be too overpowered.

The only currently useful feature of sacrifice is 'get rid of t1 engies so pathing is better at base' otherwise its too mass-inefficient.

Statistics: Posted by techmind_ — 28 Mar 2020, 04:40

Sacrifice Rework

2020-03-26T22:17:02+02:00

The Aeon Sacrifice ability is criminally underused, and I think that's a shame since it really adds to faction diversity in an area where there otherwise is none: engineers. While I've seen that SCU sacrifice is being integrated with the Rapid Fabricator, I really don't think this will increase the use rate much.

Here is my proposed rework:

Instead of directly funneling the mass/energy cost of the unit into the structure, the unit will begin to build at 3x its usual build speed. The engineer will shed health over the course of the duration, and it can only be cancelled by the premature death of the engineer. If the unit is not killed, it dies and refunds 40% of its cost directly into storage.

For T1-T3 engineers this would last 10 seconds, allowing them to do 30 seconds worth of building before death.

For SCUs, it would be 1 second per 150 mass cost of the SCU. Which would be 19 seconds for just Rapid Fabricator and 43 seconds for RAS. This is about 33% less efficient than the Engineer numbers.

Let me know what you think! I'm especially unsure about the resources refund, but I thought getting 40% of a RAS com back after a 43 second long channeled ability shouldn't be too overpowered.

Statistics: Posted by Deribus — 26 Mar 2020, 22:17