Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-04-10T14:46:00+02:00

Well, to improve the Solace vs T2 torpedo bombers, there are several paths but I think the following would be the best:

1) Fix the torpedo drop, the lag between torps dropping and hitting is what allows cruisers to down Solaces more than anything else. Torpedoes dropping down in a straight line makes no sense physically, there should at least be some angle.
2) Add flares, i.e. like torpedo defence, onto the Solace to distract some of or at least the initial AA missiles from Aoen and UEF (maybe every 2nd volley can be flared off), cybran cruiser missiles are less of a worry because they are slower to hit and sera cruiser AA is more like flak anyway.

If anyone can code these 2 things and it is not deemed "worthy" for the FAF balance team, I am happy to include them into my mod FA RTS with credits to the person(s) who make(s) the fix of course as usual.

Statistics: Posted by Evildrew — 10 Apr 2020, 14:46

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-04-10T09:55:21+02:00

I agree that Solace projectile needs more acceleration as a first step. Other measures may be required later.

As an aside, the comparisons to t3 bombers are apt but there is a key difference: T2 land/air cannot effectively shoot down a t3 bomber (no sam/asf) but T2 navy cruisers all have effective sams. As such, even a rushed Solace is nowhere as good against ships as a rushed t3 bomber is against land. So ideally, the Solace will need more hp/dps/etc than a t3 bomber to have the same superiority over tech 2.

Here are some other ideas to consider for buffs:
- Split target projectile (auto disperses to kill multiple subs)
- Powerful anti missile defense (like the t3 bomber but netter)
- Brief speed boost when it drops depth charges (to help escape the inevitable return fire)
- Teleportation after drop (teleports forward, again to help avoid enemy fire)

etc

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 10 Apr 2020, 09:55

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-04-10T03:06:04+02:00

Honestly not sure why I only just now thought of this, but Solace should get a stun. That's pretty on-brand for Aeon, and it would give it an additional role for temporarily disabling crucial T3/T4 navy during a fight.

How long should this stun be? I honestly have no idea. Given how long it takes a Solace to come around for another pass 1-2 seconds seems about right, but I fully admit that's a number I pulled out of my ass.

Statistics: Posted by Deribus — 10 Apr 2020, 03:06

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-26T00:50:31+02:00

Solace is basically a strat bomber on water. So take ur strat bomber logic and apply it to the solace....

Boom now u know the solaces job

Statistics: Posted by Azraeel — 26 Feb 2020, 00:50

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-24T21:28:04+02:00

This is exactly what the Solace is. Again, I've written down where the problem is for the current Solace. That needs to be implemented first, before any damage modifications, or HP and mass cost changes.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 24 Feb 2020, 21:28

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-23T23:40:01+02:00

Here's another random idea. By the time a player is making solaces, there's T3 air on the field already. How about keeping solaces worse mass-for-mass than T2 torps, but making them faster and more manueverable so that T3 air has a harder time catching up to it? I don't know how well cruisers would deal with that, but maybe you'd then be able to use solaces for a single-pass-then-retreat kind of attacks.

Statistics: Posted by Wesmania — 23 Feb 2020, 23:40

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-20T16:53:29+02:00

I make some tests on solace issue, The main source of solace problem is the time that comes from torpedos being shoot and time that torpedos reach the target. How it can be fixed is change fire patern and make them more like uef torp bomber when shoot torpedos directly to target, but imho that's not Solace, I like visual part how it looks. So what i did (in equilibrium):
4000hp 625dmg/torpedo = 5000dmg per salvo.

Spoiler: show

These numbers mean that solace one pass kill all strategic submarines whiteout veterancy, and all 1v1 cruiser, whiteout shields. If cruiser have missiles (sera/uef) Solace survive with about 30% hp if have not, solace die after pass. And on my opinion that's fair and while can load extreme damage to single target have slightly different role as T2.

Another potential issue is changing aeon T2 bomber to cheaper, weaker and more agile torp bomber compare with others where differences between T2 and T3 will be more drastic -> t2 for spam T3 for snipe.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 20 Feb 2020, 16:53

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-20T15:26:07+02:00

What about giving them a small, quickly recharging personal shield Titan-style? That way they could be used for hit-and-run style bombing while shrugging off a volley or two of cruiser fire.

Statistics: Posted by Deribus — 20 Feb 2020, 15:26

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-20T11:46:51+02:00

Elusive wrote:
The problem as I see it is that the Solace doesnt have a properly defined neiche within its role as an air to navy unit.
T2 torps are pretty clear in function, they are a spammable unit that you can throw at naval AA until they dont have any more, at which point you can run amock.
Are t3 torps supposed to be the same, but just an upgraded version? or are they meant to have a different role, such as being the naval equivilent of a strat bomber that focus single high prirotry targets? If they are simple just an upgrade, in what way? better mass to damage ratio, extra tanky, faster?

If we check the damage/mass per pass, we get:
2.42 for the Solace. 2.77 for the T2 torpedo bomber. So the T2 torpedo bomber has a 14.5% better ratio.
1.55 for the Sera Strat. 2.98 for the Notha. So the Notha has a 92% better ratio.
With the Corsair vs Cybran strat you'll probably get a similar picture. So if you're going to base the Solace on how it works compared to T2 torp bombers, by looking at how T3 strats compare to lower tier bombers, then the Solace comes out of this better.

My take on the Solace is that it is supposed to be a tankier version of the t2 version that is made to fly through heavy AA and strike high value targets on the other side like submerged ACUs.

This puts them as a snipe tool. In this way they'd also already perform as intended. The only problem is that they're visible on radar.

As I said in the first post, the problems with the firing pattern have to be fixed, and it remains to be seen if anything needs to be done about the Solace at all. When I looked at the numbers, they're far better than people think. But they're not being used often enough so no one really notices.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 20 Feb 2020, 11:46

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-20T07:14:10+02:00

The problem as I see it is that the Solace doesnt have a properly defined neiche within its role as an air to navy unit.
T2 torps are pretty clear in function, they are a spammable unit that you can throw at naval AA until they dont have any more, at which point you can run amock.
Are t3 torps supposed to be the same, but just an upgraded version? or are they meant to have a different role, such as being the naval equivilent of a strat bomber that focus single high prirotry targets? If they are simple just an upgrade, in what way? better mass to damage ratio, extra tanky, faster?

My take on the Solace is that it is supposed to be a tankier version of the t2 version that is made to fly through heavy AA and strike high value targets on the other side like submerged ACUs.

Statistics: Posted by Elusive — 20 Feb 2020, 07:14

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-19T23:51:38+02:00

Deribus wrote:
keyser wrote:
Deribus wrote:Would it be possible code-wise to have Solace torpedoes retarget if their initial target dies? That could made them into frigate killing machines.

balance team already discussed this idea, we would to do that or allow solace torpedoes to penetrate the shields. We don't know how easily it can be achieved though.

Not a fan of the shield idea. Aeon already has a dedicated anti-shield hover unit in the form of the Absolver, and that gets little enough use already.

a little rework of the Absolver is already planned, but once again coding limitation are appearing.
Although making solace ignore shields wouldn't impact in any way the Absolver, since it will be used in priority to snipe shielded cruiser while absolver use is to reduce opponent shields for army fights.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 19 Feb 2020, 23:51

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-19T23:47:35+02:00

keyser wrote:
Deribus wrote:Would it be possible code-wise to have Solace torpedoes retarget if their initial target dies? That could made them into frigate killing machines.

balance team already discussed this idea, we would to do that or allow solace torpedoes to penetrate the shields. We don't know how easily it can be achieved though.

Not a fan of the shield idea. Aeon already has a dedicated anti-shield hover unit in the form of the Absolver, and that gets little enough use already.

Statistics: Posted by Deribus — 19 Feb 2020, 23:47

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-19T23:17:11+02:00

I've done some testing and in the file

Code:: AANTorpedoClusterSplit01_script.lua

from the projectiles folder, taking

Code:: self:SetAcceleration(2.5)

and setting it to 5 will make it impossible for the T3 subhunters to kite out. Subhunters that survived in my testing did so because some torps hit a subhunter they were not supposed to.

I think that with their ability to hit Subhunters properly, the main issue of the Solace is fixed. Other targets that the Solace is used against are slower than the subhunter.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 19 Feb 2020, 23:17

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-19T22:56:54+02:00

Deribus wrote:
Would it be possible code-wise to have Solace torpedoes retarget if their initial target dies? That could made them into frigate killing machines.

balance team already discussed this idea, we would to do that or allow solace torpedoes to penetrate the shields. We don't know how easily it can be achieved though.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 19 Feb 2020, 22:56

Re: Solace Firing Pattern

2020-02-19T21:36:30+02:00

Would it be possible code-wise to have Solace torpedoes retarget if their initial target dies? That could made them into frigate killing machines.

Statistics: Posted by Deribus — 19 Feb 2020, 21:36