Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T23:03:02+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
Ok, so it was a good joke as I believed it. Voodoo out

nothing wrong with joking around on a salty topic.

Statistics: Posted by Azraeel — 18 Sep 2019, 23:03

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T14:34:09+02:00

Ok, so it was a good joke as I believed it. Voodoo out

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 18 Sep 2019, 14:34

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T14:29:03+02:00

h-h--- haha g-guys its a joke h-hah

Statistics: Posted by biass — 18 Sep 2019, 14:29

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T13:45:09+02:00

Seraphim look like piles of shiny shit. There's that?

Statistics: Posted by Little Miss Murder — 18 Sep 2019, 13:45

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T13:08:43+02:00

This post was just a joke honestly. All tho my favorite faction is Seraphim

Statistics: Posted by Azraeel — 18 Sep 2019, 13:08

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T11:38:58+02:00

some units have unique abilities... i wanted to write examples but it will be too much text
t1 land scouts are all different. t1 arties are pretty different. auroras can hover. cybran t1 maa can shoot ground but has less hp.
wagners go underwater instead of above and have torpedos that can actually tickle acu to death if you have enought of them.
Rhinos shoot lasers instead of projectiles. pillars are much cheaper than other t2 tanks, and that affects effectivness of overcharge.
t2 mobiles shields. t2 stealth.
aeon has shield disruptor

t1 air scout of seraphim gives intel after death in the place where it got shot down...

there are many small differences and few big ones, mostly may affect how you micro units... different ranges, different movement behavior, some units can move backwards (like megalith, like all navy units and some ground units with tracks), and others can't move backwars like GC, bots and stuff.
many units have their turrets restricted, like mantis turret movement is slow so i can't shoot while actively dodging, t2 destroyer of cybran and their frigate can't shoot backwards....

you want supcom to be like starcraft 2??? but you should instead focus on what is good in supcom. for example you can make very different kind of maps and balance will still be fine. in starcraft 2, you need certan amount of minerals placed in certain way and certan amount of ramps in each base, and need there be unbuildable rocks placed on lowground, and main base has to be highground and rush distance can't be too small otherwise certain tactis become overpowered.
supcom also has air that is actually moving fast.
projectiles are simulated so you can hide behind buildings, you can hide damaged units by placing healthy one on the line of fire, you can hide behind montain, you can "block" factories because units are literally build on top of them.
you also have naval units and cool mechanics like shields, stealth, radar, sonar, cloak...

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 18 Sep 2019, 11:38

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T08:36:43+02:00

A good question would be: Which faction is your favorite one and why?

I'm playing UEF in ~80 % of my games. The reasons are the following:

- ACU has the most health points
- The T2 Anti Air Ships can fire missiles (that is important on some maps with hills)
- I can build T2 shield tanks.
- T2 gunships are good for a snipe and can transport units

and many more. By answering this question you will notice the difference. This said, I know what you are talking about. Like you mentioned the t3 sera subs. Yes they aren't so overpowered anymore but this is a good thing. You were forced to play this faction on huge water maps and that was a bad thing.

Side note: I will deleted all one liners and posts that do not contribute to the topic from now on.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 18 Sep 2019, 08:36

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T06:17:12+02:00

Im also very disappointed that all factions have battleships and no one has a flying unicorn that would be shooting rainbows.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 18 Sep 2019, 06:17

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T06:14:15+02:00

"There is literally no difference in Air, LIKE ZERO."
"T3 Gunships Are The Same, Restorers are the only ones with real Differences with good AA but still the same"

Setting aside the fact that gunships, t3 torpedo bombers, and all T2 air ARE different, a difference in interceptors and ASFs here would be undesirable. If one faction was superior, or inferior, in the T3 air game, it would force air players to always choose a certain faction. The basic units for air control are largely comparable between factions, but there is still significant "flavor" in the other types of air units.

Restorers are very different. Sniping an ACU with restorers is very different than with broadswords. Attacking naval units is very different with restorers compared to broadswords. And you left out the fact that Seraphim doesn't even have t3/t4 gunships.

"T1 is really just the same there is no difference expect for mantis being fast... Auroras have some range but overrall still the same"

Auroras are very different. They can kite enemy units, even across water. You benefit from bringing light artillery to fight them, much more so than for other t1 tanks. They are more vulnerable to air. They can kite an ACU without the gun upgrade. The entire early part of the game is different when you are against aeon, because air is so much more important. And then because Aeon can make swift winds, once Aeon goes to T2 air you have to consider moving up to T3 air.

" ALL FACTIONS HAVE UNITS THAT SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE"

For the most part, yes, that is true. And it is a good thing. These units are actually pretty diverse even though they serve the same purpose. It would be very weird if certain factions just couldn't stand and fight in a t3 land battle. The game would be very different, and probably not in a good way.

But also, there are specialized units unique to certain factions. Experimentals, of course. But also sniper bots, absolver, deceiver, solace, broadsword/wailer, and many others.

-

How much do you value the diversity?

Hypothetically, if you were going in to a 4v4 matchup on Seton's Clutch, which would you rather have:
(1) your team has 6200 rating points overall but all 4 players are UEF; or
(2) your team has 6000 rating points and 1 player for each faction
?

I would pick #2. The question is, what number would be enough for you? Would you give up that diversity for an extra 100 rating points, because every faction is "the same"? the number of points you are willing to give up, in order to get diversity, shows how much you value it. If there is no meaningful diversity, the number should be zero.

-

I do think you are undervaluing the importance of small differences.

First, small differences add up when they follow the same theme. UEF theme: chunky defensive units. Cybran theme: fast, sneaky, and versatile. Aeon theme: extreme purity/single-mindedness/zealotry. Seraphim theme: evil aliens attack attack attack. If the small differences between similar units were arbitrary/random and did not add up to support a larger theme, then I think you would have a better point that diversity is lacking. But you can't say that diversity is lacking when each faction has a recognizable theme.

Second, small differences are more important at high-level play. The speed difference for mantis might not make much difference in your games, but for 2k rated players, it matters a lot.

-

There are benefits to having only a limited amount of diversity. Compare FAF to Starcraft Remastered. Because the races are so different, mapmakers have to be extremely careful to balance maps between each of the races. You basically don't see island maps in competitive play because of how zerg is affected by them. "Ground Zero" was replaced with "Neo Ground Zero" to try to achieve a better balance between the races, and there are other maps that have been tweaked for that reason. Mapmaking for professional competitive gameplay is a very refined art with very strict rules/customs because they need to achieve balance between three different non-mirror matchups. But in FAF, we can have all kinds of different maps in the ladder pool at any time, and most maps are not faction-specific, because the differences are subtle enough. (The only really significant issue would be bumpy terrain that affects aurora, rhinos, cerberus, etc. more than other units.) Diverse maps are one of the most important sources of diverse gameplay in an RTS. FAF supports greater diversity in map types because the faction differences are not too huge. So I do not think it is a problem that factions have significant similarities.

Statistics: Posted by armacham01 — 18 Sep 2019, 06:14

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T04:02:26+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
Why all your reasons read like: “there is literally no difference between these tiers/units if you exclude the differences”

Ikr

Statistics: Posted by Azraeel — 18 Sep 2019, 04:02

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T04:01:54+02:00

Why all your reasons read like: “there is literally no difference between these tiers/units if you exclude the differences”

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 18 Sep 2019, 04:01

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T04:01:05+02:00

Farmsletje wrote:
take that jagged

I can safely say jagged is now triggered

4head

Statistics: Posted by Azraeel — 18 Sep 2019, 04:01

Re: Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T03:47:57+02:00

take that jagged

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 18 Sep 2019, 03:47

Faction Diversity is Gone and Heres Why!

2019-09-18T13:15:07+02:00

Faction Diversity is Gone and Here's How and Why?

Before you guys go insane and try to end my career Here's the deal... Faction Diversity is gone, because It doesn't really help what faction you pick they are all the same in general terms with little to no difference. Yes Percivals strong but so are bricks. Original FA had diversity on point (Seraphim OP). Obviously wasnt good for Competitive play but you can still manage Competitive play and Diversity. I feel like Balance team has just REMOVED Diversity and sided with the easier objective of just making the factions the same... Aeon use to be a very good raiding faction as they had the fastest T3 Unit, T1 Unit, and T2 Unit. Harbingers were op but now they are garbage slow and you've basically turned the Aeon into a slow faction too. Auroras still rocking that nice health and no speed...

Here's Really Why Faction Diversity is gone...

1) Seraphim use to have T3 Subs and they were the best navy late game honestly but now T3 Subs have been nerfed so bad there t3 navy is basically the same as any other. T3 Subs cost too much and yes are good snipers but thats not there job, shit i might as well spam t2 subs or t1 .

2) What makes T3 Land Any Different, and don't say Pervicals make UEF The Best In Land, Yes ok, Pervicals are GOOD. Bricks actually do trade blow for blow and are just as good as Pervical. As are Harbingers and Othuum some are slightly better then others but like i say again theres no true Difference.

3) There is literally no difference in Air, LIKE ZERO. Asfs are asfs and strats are strats. Yes Cybran Strats have Stealth and AOE, hey Aeon dont have AOE. You can do the same job with all of them so they are the same. Stealth doesnt make Cybran super Diverse.

4) ACUs are diverse so i'll leave them alone

5) Experimentals... Experimentals do serve different jobs. But eh idk you decide on that yourself.

6) Illsavohs, Rhinos, Pillars, and Obisidians are all the same ok, Nothing huge in difference. Illsavohs use to be default the best best. Illsavohs are still all around the best but they are all the same in reality.

7) T3 Gunships Are The Same, Restorers are the only ones with real Differences with good AA but still the same... Torp Bombers all the same dont even talk about the Solace its garbage...

8) T1 is really just the same there is no difference expect for mantis being fast... Auroras have some range but overrall still the same

9) Battleships all the same. Summits have a more range but a battleship is a battleship.

REAL POINT IS THAT ALL FACTIONS HAVE UNITS THAT SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE AND NO REAL UNIQUENESS

this is a joke btw

Statistics: Posted by Azraeel — 18 Sep 2019, 03:26